Sheldon Eakins:

Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is Ms. Hedreich Nichols. Without further ado, Hedreich, thank you so much for joining us today.

Hedreich Nichols:

Sheldon. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Sheldon Eakins:

So I have been bombarded lately with a bunch of emails regarding critical race theory. And so that's what we'll be talking about today. But before we jump into that, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Hedreich Nichols:

Hedreich Nichols, author, educator, and advocate for equity from the north Texas area. I teach seventh grade at tech at a north Texas public charter. I also write district curriculum and I host a podcast and law called SmallBites where I teach equity strategies in small bites.

Sheldon Eakins:

Tell us a little bit more about the SmallBites. So where can we find it? It's on YouTube as well, right?

Hedreich Nichols:

Yes. The very cool thing is that if you type my name into any search engine, H-E-D-R-E-I-C-H you will find Hedreich.com, anchor/Hedreich, YouTube/Hedreich, blah-blah-blah/Hedreich. So that's the cool thing. You can find me on any platform under my name.

Sheldon Eakins:

There we go. All right. So we'll leave some links in the show notes as well. So we're talking about critical race theory. Now, I don't know how to describe this. People ask me where am I from? I say, "I'm from Texas, but I live in Idaho." Idaho is a state that has passed a ban, House Bill 377, which says that we cannot discuss critical race theory in our, can I use public funds in regards to critical race theory? So I believe that there's a lot of confusion centered around what exactly is critical race theory. So let's get started with that. Could you break that down for us, what is critical race theory?

Hedreich Nichols:

If I may start, what critical race theory is not, and I think this will free a lot of teachers to do what they need to do. It's not criticizing race, criticizing talks about race. So that is actually off the table. Most people don't really know what critical race theory is, but it's not talking about race, talking about racism. It has nothing to do with that really. It is recognizing that race is not biological. So if you know the Human Genome Project, it goes into, for example, a student asked me the other day, "Hey, we're writing something, something in history. And can I say, instead of white people, Caucasian people?" And I said, "Well, you can. But actually that comes from the outdated and disproven theory on race that there are five races. And if they don't come from the Caucasoid mountains, then they're really not Caucasian.

               What you can say is people of European descent, because she's talking about white Americans. So one part of critical race theory is that race is not biological. It is a social construct. And that's super important to know, just because we do want our kids to have actual scientific information. So red, yellow, black, and white, all are precious in his sight, literally there is no difference genetically. It's not like a dog and a leopard. We are all the same, homosapiens. So there's that. This is probably where people who want a ban, we talk about acknowledgement that racism is a normal feature of society and it's embedded within systems and institutions, it comes from the legal sector. And so it talks about how the legal system constantly replicates inequity. And I don't have to talk about that to know that it's true, but I can still talk with my kids about the statistics that I see, because when I teach math, for example, I can teach the statistical probability that for example, my 17-year-old son who is now driving since yesterday alone will get stopped and be confronted and that there might be a bad outcome.

               So that's one of the things they don't want to talk about. America is racist. I think that's where there is some kind of disconnect. Another tenant is critical race theory wants to reject the thought that there are a few bad apples. And if you've ever actually had a bad apple in a bag of apples, and if you don't open that bag up, it really will ruin the whole bag of apples. That's kind of how that works. And so we like to say, "Well, let's not say well everyone's racist. It's just a few bad apples." And so critical race theory wants to reject that and rejects that. Again, something I don't necessarily have to talk with my kids because people cannot do broad sweeping change. Individuals can make individual changes that cause broad sweeping change so they can ban it. I am talking on a very individual level with my students and there's so many things that have nothing to do with this. Okay.

               Anyway, the last big thing is, I guess, embracing the experience that everyone's journey is different, and well, I'm sorry, those are my words. The critical race theory words say that you recognize that particularly if you are not a person of color or if you are white, that you recognize that others may have a different journey and experience. And that's something that we don't want to talk about, but we can't. Because if you look at most standards across our nation, we are supposed to talk about diversity, culture and civics, civic responsibility, and civic responsibility always means belonging. It always means being fair. And so even two white people don't have the same experience. So there's literally no way to ban talking about people's differences in journeys when you have to actually teach your kids to respect each other individually. So there's all of that in a nutshell.

Sheldon Eakins:

In a nutshell. Okay. And I'm sure there's more that we can unpack, but much are pretty bite size almost as well. So I would say further research and I'll leave some links in the show notes as well, but at least I appreciate you for breaking it down as well, as far as what critical race theory is. Now, here's a question. Based off of what I heard, it sounds like there's some challenges with regards to what racism looks like today currently. Because I'm thinking, well, does that mean, I'm a history teacher. Does that mean I can never talk about slavery? Or I can't talk about the civil rights movement? So clarify that for me so I can understand what can I talk about regarding historical factors that have impacted our country to what's happening now.

Hedreich Nichols:

Well, that's exactly kind of where I'm scratching my head too. I think that basically the proponents of these bans do not want to say that there is systemic racism today. Okay, fine. I don't have to say that, because once again, I have a little bit of a problem, we start talking about let's dismantle systemic racism, because I know how to dismantle something, like, for example, you give me a screwdriver, I can take it apart, but I don't know how to dismantle systemic racism because I am not a system. I am a person. My students are individuals. So for those individuals, I can teach each of them to be fair, to acknowledge that their journey may or may not resemble the journey of someone who looks like them or does not look like them. So in the history books, slavery is in everyone, even here in Texas, even though I believe it's McGraw Hill has called them workers in the ninth grade 215 edition.

               They did print a retraction, the online book. But even we here in Texas teach about slavery. So that is a historical fact. There's no way that you can teach about that as a historical fact and not ask your kids, especially because we're teaching critical thinking, not ask your kids, "What do you think the outcome is of slavery in the 1800's, in the 1900's? What about today? Are there still things that connects to the slave experience?" And that's a big part of teaching your kids to think critically, because nothing that happens today, there's nothing that happens today that doesn't have a past. And I tell people all the time, "I am the first generation of people born out of the Jim Crow south. The first generation." I mean, look at me, do I look old?

Sheldon Eakins:

No.

Hedreich Nichols:

Don't answer that wrong here.

Sheldon Eakins:

I know better. So here's the question then, here's the question. So what I'm hearing is, it's okay to ask those critical questions to have your students express or tell you, "Okay, this is how I feel about what's impacting my community." But as a teacher, we aren't to take a stance. We can't say this is how we feel about it, but more we can place the onus on our students. Is that kind of what I gathered?

Hedreich Nichols:

Sheldon, that's absolutely the case. Actually in the next couple of weeks, there will be a, I just wrote an article for Edutopia and it's coming out talking about that. Teachers have, we have to get out of our feelings. You know what I mean? I have my pet projects, and I have the things that I love that I want to display in my classroom. But my classroom is for my students to display what they think, what they feel, the work that they do. And my job as a teacher, as an educator is to facilitate. Whether I like what they say or not, my job is to ask them questions so that they will be able to think critically. Because if I'm feeding them answers, if I'm feeding the knowledge, and they're taking that knowledge and just kind of regurgitating it, then they are also not going to go to the news outlets and think, "Hmm, I wonder if this is actually true? Let me see what someone else wrote about it."

               So if we would get out of our feelings, we'll get out of the way of the learning. And none of these discussions will be an issue because kids want to know. And my advisory kids this year, I have seventh graders. They have started conversations about abortion. They have started conversations about Black Lives Matter. They've started conversations about MAGA. They started conversations about a Grand Prairie event that came out of the news, whereby teachers wore Chucks and pearls on inauguration day because Kamala Harris wears Chucks and pearls. And those teachers, there was some drama behind it. And my kids brought that up in my class. They brought up what's on our Texas Education Association website about, do I have to take the star?

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah. And I think what you were saying about student-led conversations reminds me of Paulo Freire's book, the Banking System of Pedagogy, of the oppressed, where we typically as educators want to deposit all of this knowledge to our students. And then we expect to make withdrawals. And I like how you're saying we as educators do have to kind of give that up. And I mean, we should be doing that anyway. But especially if we're saying, "You know what, I want to work around this whole critical race theory thing and still be able to engage in these conversations that are going to be relevant to my kids and my community." We do have to take a step back.

Hedreich Nichols:

And that's the thing that teaching is political. Everything is political. Every textbook, every worksheet is created by one person with some kind of bias, because everything's man-made and we all have bias. And so when we realize that, we've got to teach our kids to think critically, and the only way we can do that is to be politically-minded, but not partisan-minded. We don't have to take a stand in our classroom. That's so hard. I realized that. When I feel passionate about something, I do have to take a step back and say, "Well, it doesn't really matter what I think. What do you think about it?" Where did you get that information? Was it corroborated? All right. I understand. Yes. Major news outlets have been attacked lately for not being neutral. So have you checked out AllSides media, do you know what that is? And those are the kinds of conversations we should be having with our kids. Even our little kids you can ask, "Have you read it yourself? Who said that?"

Sheldon Eakins:

So I was doing this training yesterday, as a matter of fact, and we were talking about critical race theory because I was doing a training in Idaho and they were like, "What are we supposed to do about House Bill 377?" And the question was, "Well, what if a student asks the teacher, teacher, what is your stance?" Or what is your opinion on the matter or whatever we're discussing, especially if it's related to critical race theory, what type of responses would you recommend for an educator to give to a student when they are asked to be involved or engaged in the conversation?

Hedreich Nichols:

I have very strong feelings about that. However, I want you to develop your own passions and I know that we have a good relationship, so I don't want your feelings to be colored by mine. So let's talk more about what you think.

Sheldon Eakins:

Love it. Okay. Okay. Thank you for saying that. Now I got another question for you. So why is this a ban? Why ban critical race theory? What is the purpose behind this? So we kind of said, "Well, we can talk about, or we can't about how to work around it." Why is this even up for debate in the first place?

Hedreich Nichols:

I know, right? That's a big IKR moment for me. But what I see is that we don't like to be called out. I have a friend, he was habitually late, and I used to always tease him about it. He hasn't been late in the last two and a half years and I just noticed it recently. I was like, "Wow." He does not like to be caught wrong. That's just not his thing. And nobody wants to be caught wrong. And when you say that, there are two things. There's that. There is the, what do you mean that we've written this wrong or what do you mean we have not acknowledged all of these things, we haven't taught the whole truth? You calling me a liar? Nobody wants to have to admit that. That's hard. And it's certainly hard to realize that the reason Texas has, we have the second largest GDP in the nation, the ninth largest in the world, we a state. The ninth largest in the world, and that we got our wealth on the backs of enslaved and sharecroppers.

               My mama picked cotton in Louisiana. She did it because her friends were going and she said, she didn't have to. She said, "Oh no, I'll never do this again. Oh my God." So this is not some past thing. We look at those black and white pictures in our history books. And we relegate those things to some past. But nobody wants to feel the heat of human trafficking. Slavery is a nice word. The middle passage is a nice word. The Holocaust, it's a nice word. Sharecropper, nice word. Labor abuses, human trafficking, child rape. Those are not nice words. So we always want the dirt to fall on somebody else, not on us. So that's a hard thing. And I think that especially as educators who are already on a journey, and particularly even educators of color particularly, we have to realize what it's like to be the flavor of the month, and suddenly be told that you're wrong. And that has to color how we approach people who are resistant to talking about these issues. Because what you mean? It's that kid in the classroom who you just caught talking.

               You watch them. And they said, "I didn't do nothing." That is human nature. There are many people who don't want to get better. They just want to be, I'm doing fine. Everything's good. Don't call me out. So there's that. And then of course there is also just the inability to confront the harsh reality of... what's that word?

Sheldon Eakins:

Complicitness?

Hedreich Nichols:

Complicitness. Yeah. Let's go with that. Of what that looks like. I didn't do anything. I'm not privileged. I worked hard for what I got. Yep. You did. But to realize that again, I am the first generation out of the Jim Crow south. That means that what everybody my age got from their parents was a segregated message. And that's hard to hear, that doesn't make people uncomfortable, it makes them feel accused and a wall goes up and don't tell me I was wrong. We teach our kindergartners they can't take toys from somebody else, but we teach that the pilgrims were great people for coming over and taking land from somebody else.

Sheldon Eakins:

Hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm sorry. Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off, but can you say that one more time please, for the folks in the back, can you say that one more time please?

Hedreich Nichols:

Okay. So we teach our kindergartners that you can't go to another kid, take a toy and call it your own. But we each that the pilgrims were heroic for coming over and founding this great new nation when they took land that already belonged to someone.

Sheldon Eakins:

Snap. But again, that's okay. We could go on. I'm a former history teacher and that's one of the things I've always, the whole expansion, and how we glorify the expansion of what we call the United States of America. But you compared it to how we teach kids about kindness, but colonialism it's fine, I guess. That's okay.

Hedreich Nichols:

one of my favorite SmallBites is called Dish And the Tea. And you can go scroll back, it's probably about six or seven months ago. I said, "What if I was talking to you about my neighbor? Oh my God. He came in last week, kicked the door in. He locked all those people up in their closet. And now every time I look out there, he's got a stream of people in and out of there. I think he's running a human trafficking ring. Oh my God." Well, what does his wife say? Oh, well, she didn't say anything. I guess she don't mess with it too much. But last I heard he had several babies by some of those young girls in there.

               If I said that, "Have you called the police? Have you called CPS? Oh my God." But we called Thomas Jefferson and Sarah, what is her name? Hemsley. I forgot.

Sheldon Eakins:

Henley? Hemsley?

Hedreich Nichols:

I think. We call them star crossed lovers or something. She had her first baby for him when she was 16. And it's not like she could have refused. The children were freed at the end of her life or whatever. But I mean, that's not a love. He didn't move her into the big house.

Sheldon Eakins:

And he never released her, even at his deathbed. She was never freed.

Hedreich Nichols:

So where's the love? Where is the love you said you... and that's really the song. And that's the thing that people don't understand.

Sheldon Eakins:

Sally Hemings, Sally Hemings.

Hedreich Nichols:

Sally Hemings, thank you.

Sheldon Eakins:

I didn't want her name not to get announced.

Hedreich Nichols:

Thank you. Please go and look up Sally Hemings. She was the woman who Jefferson promised, as I understand history, he promised his wife when she died, that he would never remarry. So he took a young girl, and made her his concubine. And that is a make, because you can't really refuse. As a matter of fact, one slave woman did try and I don't know her name right now. She tried to sue because she was raped when she was ill. And they said, "You're a slave woman, you have no right to refuse your master." So where is the love you say? And the problem with any of those things is that we, our country is built on the fact that there is liberty and justice for all. And that's not in a lot of countries like that. The French are different, for example, they have a thing us and them. It's like written into their constitution. They don't want a whole lot of them's, but here it's different. We've said that there is liberty and justice for all. So the people who believe that don't want to confront the fact that there's duplicity and that's hard.

Sheldon Eakins:

So if I'm a lawmaker, because here's the other thing, because I've had, not debates, but conversations centered around critical race theory and why folks are passing this. And I have heard people say, well, we don't think that legislators actually understand what critical race theory actually is. They just assume it just further perpetuates the attack on the white Christian male. And then I have another side of folks that say, "No, they understand exactly what they're doing." And they're just, again, trying to silence and kind of like what you're alluding to earlier, where you were saying, "Well, if I'm doing something wrong and you keep calling me out on it, if I have a way to shut it down, then I'm going to go that route." What are your thoughts? Do you think that there might be a mixture of folks who know and who don't know? Or is it just, I mean, is this on purpose? What is your take?

Hedreich Nichols:

There are those followers that don't really know that. I mean there are always people who, this is what we say we're going to do, this is GOP, this is our line and this is where we're going with that. Great, wonderful. Well, we don't need a commission on January sixth. That's what we're deciding. Okay, good. Let's all jump on that boat. So there are those, but the bottom line is that power preserves itself, power seeks to preserve itself. And there is no way that anybody who has had this much power unchallenged is going to say, "Oh yeah, I guess I did get this unfairly. You're right. I probably need to give this back." Even in California, there's a bill for their people who are, they're really trying to go back and find out who's on death row that shouldn't have been, et cetera, et cetera, and free some people.

               But that's a great thing. Doesn't that sound great? We all need to go and do that. People in jail, harsh crimes and punishments for a bag of weed, those kinds of things. What they've done now, they thought it was a great idea until they started counting up the price tag. And now they're trying to backtrack and say, "Okay, we're going to cap reparations at a hundred thousand dollars." So you've been in jail 44 years. And we're going to give you $750,000, like in North Carolina. I'm sorry. I'm all over the place. So nobody, it's great. And let's look at it as if it was us. Let's say we have 50 gazillion acres of prime real estate in New Time Square. And we own all of those buildings. And we have trust funds for our babies babies babies already set up, private jets, Rolls, 12 car garage, Tesla. I wouldn't want a Tesla, I would want a '66 Mustang.

               But anyway, all of that, here we are. And then somebody says, "Hey, you know, this was actually land that was given to this particular family back in 1878. And their descendants are here. They want that land back." Well, now you have to actually sell off your real estate, your property, and actually, it's a great idea. And so nobody's trying to give that up. What do you mean? I worked hard for this. I've managed this all my life. Nobody wants to give that up. And I understand the only problem is that it's wrong and it's not fair. Here's a word. It's unjust. And if we are in a place where we want liberty and justice for all, if you have something that should have belonged to someone else, if I find a wallet, Sheldon, if I find a wallet, I don't get to take the money and invest it and then keep it. You know what I mean? That's not right. I have to find the owner of the wallet and give it back.

Sheldon Eakins:

So the pushback always is traditional. Oh, so let's say that same wallet that you found you pass down to your daughter and your son or whoever, and they pass it down, they pass it down. It didn't belong to you in the first place. But you have folks that'll say, "Well, this has been our heritage, this has been our tradition. This has been in our family from such and such time, fourth generation." It doesn't matter. It was still stolen. And like you said, whatever kind of legacy story you're going to try to tell me doesn't matter. It was never yours to take or to have.

Hedreich Nichols:

Yep. And where I get into a real problem, this is where I don't understand. This is why my logo, one of my favorite things of my logo is humanity. Okay. So let's say this is four generations later, and you have used the wallet and you've made it into all this. But the people who would have originally had the wallet, because they didn't have the wallet, there's all this, they've had this horrible four generations.

Sheldon Eakins:

The reverse, yeah.

Hedreich Nichols:

The complete reverse, because that was their legacy. And they no longer had it to give. So don't you feel that you are beholden to them? Don't you feel that they are deserving of some kind of reparations? It's like having an accident. If I run into somebody's car, I'm not supposed to drive off and say, "Oh, well." That person I need, oh my God, they're hurt. They got the collar thingie on. Oh, I need to pay for their medical bills. That's why we have insurance. So it's just not fair to say, "Oh, well, that's my great-great-great-great-great-great-great grand person. Not me. My hands are clean. And that's what I hope getting to the complicit thing. If it wasn't yours to begin with, then we have to go back and look back. And I remember when Bill Clinton started talking about reparations when he was president, and that got squashed really quickly, because it's easy to talk about it. But when you were the holder of the money, you don't want to give back.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah. Okay. I have another question. When it comes to critical race theory, and a question that we talked about yesterday in my training about this topic was, okay, what about the teachers? So it's okay just so we're clear, it was okay, or it's not okay for us to sway or provide our opinions regarding critical race theory type of topics. However, it is okay for us to use public funds to do professional development for staff and teachers. Is that your understanding as well?

Hedreich Nichols:

I'm not sure what the specifics of your bill are. So I cannot say. I do say this. If there is a ban, you do have to teach your teachers what exactly that means in practice, because legislators are not educators. I don't know why they're legislating on education anyway. But basically, you still have to teach your teachers. You have to take whatever that bill is, and I would strongly suggest that whoever the powers that be are in a district that you get together with legal, and you talk about what that means, what the implications are. So the teachers can also be very clear. So what if somebody does say, "I believe that I have the right to go to the Capitol, it's public land, and I should be able to go in there with my gun anytime." And you say, "Well, that's inappropriate because... " Are you going to be put on leave? Are you going to be... We've had teachers here in north Texas that got put on administrative leave for having a Black Lives Matter poster in a Bitmoji classroom.

               So really talk, really be transparent and do it with your legal team. So that everybody has a clear understanding of what they are allowed to do, what they are not allowed to do, because the ban doesn't make sense, it doesn't line up with what's going on, what's in the textbooks. I mean every civics textbook talks about sharecropping. And I literally just had ours out during Star, talks about sharecropping talks about enslave and talks about the Japanese talks about Mexican immigration and their part, and also sharecropping. It talks about all of those things. And Pearson's book also has, it talks about the economic outfall and what it meant for them not to be able to partake in the wealth building. So if that's in the textbook and that's a part of the standards, you can't ban talking about that.

Sheldon Eakins:

So what I meant was when we're talking about, so you and I both do equity work, right? And so when you get called into a school or a district and to train teachers on implicit bias or microaggressions or whatever, topic, racial, whatever it is, white supremacy culture, those types of things. My understanding is that you can still utilize funds for teacher training, but you just can't utilize funds for student work. That's where I was going.

Hedreich Nichols:

Got it. Okay. Well if that's what the bill says in there, then I would go with that. But I don't generally have to talk about those words, back to what we said at the very beginning, I don't have to talk about racism or white supremacy or any of those buzzwords that make people so angry because what I am going to, and then if you're angry, you can't hear me. So I'm good with that. I have a SmallBites episode called Isms and Phobes. When you use the isms and phobes, people already, the wall comes up. They haven't heard anything after the word racism, they've heard nothing. But if I use the words, humanity, if I use the word kindness, it's the same thing. If you stole someone's wallet, or if you found out that somebody put it in your trunk in your car and you find it and you don't do all that you can to make sure it gets back to its rightful owner, you are being unjust. That's not a race buzzword.

Sheldon Eakins:

You're stealing.

Hedreich Nichols:

You're being a thief. Also not a race word. So there's so many words. I think that if you use other language, you can teach everything you need to teach, because it all boils down to humanity. It boils down to socio-emotional learning. What teacher does not want to see every student's story represented in their classroom? I don't care, if I have a Muslim kid who was, and I've worked in a small Christian school where we had a Muslim student. And it was my job and I had some pushback, but she's in my classroom. Her story matters. So we talk about what is a hijob and what is the Muslim faith? It's different than the Christian faith? Is it another God? Why don't you tell us, sweetheart, what is it? Tell us what you believe. See, what she believes. There are people who believe different things. This is what you believe and this is what Kayla believes. So we just have to use words that work for teachers and for students.

Sheldon Eakins:

So we don't necessarily have to get caught up on the quote, unquote isms and buzzwords and the latest sexiest terms that are centered around anti-racism. We can utilize terminology that is basic understanding when it comes to the humanity.

Hedreich Nichols:

Bias and belonging. Those are important words. It is my job to make sure that every, and it's research-based that when students belong, then they achieve better, when they feel a sense of belonging. And so the way I other, the way I represent stories and don't represent stories says to them, "They belong, or they don't belong." So that is language that we can all agree on.

Sheldon Eakins:

Well, Hedreich, it has been a true pleasure. Did we leave anything out regarding critical race theory that you wanted to add to the conversation?

Hedreich Nichols:

Just what you just said, don't get hung up on the language and the terms, make sure that you're doing best for all of the students in your class. And, and this is a big one, all of the students across our country period, because perhaps you live in a homogenous, you work in a homogenous district where there's not a lot of diversity, but your students do not live in a world lacking in diversity. So you want to make sure that you're doing not just your best for the kids who are in front of you, but for the kids who are all across the country. And that means mitigate the bias.

Sheldon Eakins:

Hedreich, it has been, I have enjoyed our time talking. We've been on Teach Better a few times together. And so I had you on the show. So I'm very thankful for that opportunity and for your time. Could you leave us with one word of advice for our listeners?

Hedreich Nichols:

There will always be naysayers and people who want to silence voices at every juncture when there's change, this is not new. Don't expend your energy being up in arms about it. Just find how you can do the best for your class, according to what you know to be best. Because legislators are not teachers, legislators are not teachers. Especially teachers, once you've been in the classroom, you know what your classroom needs. And the other thing is just step back from your feelings so that your students develop their voice.

Sheldon Eakins:

If we've got some folks that want to connect with you. What's the best way to reach you online?

Hedreich Nichols:

@Hedreich on Twitter is probably the place I am most. You can find me on Clubhouse, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, on Facebook and all the major platforms. And if you want to see me on the blog, then SmallBites is on YouTube, Friday Nights Live, and for summer, SmallBites, Summer Shorts.

Sheldon Eakins:

Okay. We'll stay tuned for that one. I'm looking forward to that. So, all right, Hedreich, it has been a pleasure. Thank you again for your time.

Hedreich Nichols:

Thank you, Sheldon, hope you will revenge and come online as well.

Sheldon Eakins:

Hey, let me know, let me know.

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