Sheldon Eakins:

Welcome advocates to another episode of The Leading Equity Podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their school. Today's special guest is a special guest to them. I'm really excited to have on today. I have been watching him, I have been stalking him, I have been checking him out on social media. I saw that he had a brand new book out, Ruthless Equity: Disrupt the Status Quo and Ensure Learning for All Students. So without further ado, I have Mr. Ken Williams on. Thank you so much, Ken, for your time.

Ken Williams:

Thank you, good brother. It's an honor.

Sheldon Eakins:

Well, the pleasure is always mine. Again, like I said, I've been a fan from afar. And before we even started recording, I told you, I'm so glad that we're able to make this happen. You and I share similar passions when it comes to equity and doing this equity work. And so I was really excited to hear the term, the title, Ruthless Equity. Now, folks that listen to the show, they know me as a person that promotes being disruptors, a person that promotes the advocacy work. But before we get started into today's topic, I'd love for you to share for those who may not be familiar with you and your work, to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Ken Williams:

Sure. Sure. Sure. So I'm a 30-year-plus educator. I'm a former classroom teacher, assistant principal, school principal. I've led two different schools through learning for all, reculturing process, primary leveraging the PLC at work process. I've been coaching, speaking, and working with schools across North America for the past 15 years. And this is my life's work, I love it, I have a podcast that I do, and primarily onsite professional development. Also, if you follow my work, I do a ton of microlearning videos. They're all between 30 seconds and two minutes long, on topics related to school culture, expectation, leadership and equity.

Sheldon Eakins:

Nice. And where are you based out of?

Ken Williams:

I'm based out of Atlanta. I'm originally from New York City, but I live just outside Atlanta, Georgia.

Sheldon Eakins:

All right. All right. I got a sister in Atlanta, so next time I'm in the area-.

Ken Williams:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir-.

Sheldon Eakins:

... we got to connect in person.

Ken Williams:

... we got to chop it up. Have lunch and chop it up.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All right. All right. So one of the things that really stood out to me with Ruthless Equity is the enemy of equity. Now, I'm sure you've experienced this probably as much or more than I have, and a lot of my friends that do equity work, the CRT comes out and there's all this backlash, and there's all these things, but I don't think that's the enemy that you're talking about. And I'd love for you to share a little bit about what is that enemy when it comes to equity?

Ken Williams:

Sure, sure. Thank you. The enemy of equity is complacency. And often, when you hear the word complacency, we all have, and I did, even before I wrote the book, have a definition in our heads, resting on our laurels, not as urgent as we need to be, but as I do this work, and it doesn't matter where I do it, urban, suburban, rural, extra rural, districts, it doesn't matter. I've discovered that complacency comes in a myriad of forms. Some of them very subtle, seductive. Some couched in positivity. And as I mentioned before, complacency is an immutable force, it does not take a moment off, it is constantly in your ear. When you're getting messages that kids from that side of town can't learn, or white teachers can't teach Black children to learn, or we got to have ability groups in our schools, or kids who speak Spanish are at a disadvantage.

               When you hear these whispers about the kids from that side of town, parents' income, all these things that work against what really matters, which is leveraging the collective expertise of the educators in the building with the right mindset in practice, complacency doesn't take a moment off. I even get down to talking about how we as educators sometimes we sabotage each other. Two things I maintain. One, with all of the attention and money that goes into anti-bullying campaigns for students, we as educators can be some of the most non-physical bullies around each other. You have a student, I'm working with Sheldon, I'm struggling getting through to him. I walk into the staff lounge, my pockets are pulled inside out, I've tried everything that I can think of. And I'm complaining about it.

               And then I got a teammate who's sitting over there that says, "Have you considered trying X, Y, and Z?" And one of two things is going to happen. Now, if the reaction is, "Who are you to tell me? Give me another... I told you I tried everything with him. Now you're here trying to make me look like a bad teacher." That's complacency at work in a toxic culture. In a healthy culture, an equity-driven culture, when you walk in and you complain in that way, "I'm fed up and I can't think of another thing to do with Sheldon." And someone makes that suggestion, you welcome it, you come in there with your pockets pulled inside out, looking for someone to offer you one other thing. When you hit your stride with equitable practice, you don't care where the answer comes from, baby. You just want the answer.

               But we can be bullies, man. We can be bullies. Someone speaks up during professional development, we call them brown-noses, or principal's pets, or trying to curry favor. These little digs. Someone puts up a bulletin board, that's a little different than other ones, some displays. And we're just like, "What are you trying to do, impress somebody?" We do that subtle kind of bullying that tense down what's needed for equity. That's one thing I stand on. Another thing is this. And I say this in the book, the extreme woke and the extreme races to me are two sides of the same coin.

Sheldon Eakins:

Hold up, hold up. Tell me more, tell me more, tell me more.

Ken Williams:

They come from a different heart space.

Sheldon Eakins:

Okay.

Ken Williams:

So, of course, with the races, the race doesn't think the kids can learn anyway.

Sheldon Eakins:

Okay.

Ken Williams:

But I'm talking about the extreme now, I'm not talking about just woke or folks who are aware, I'm talking about the extremes. I find that the extremes of the "woken," they project the kids as so broken because it seems like all they focus on is what they don't have, what they don't have, what they don't have. What's missing that they don't realize the harm they're doing. And maybe I'm old school. I came up in the city. I came up in the hood, both my parents work two and a half jobs to make ends, almost meet. We live check to almost check. I wore hand me downs all my life and carried lunch in Wonder bread bags. But if my mom got wind to something I needed to know, I use this example all the time. Nobody in my hood knew what squash was as a sport. Nobody.

Sheldon Eakins:

I still don't know what squash is.

Ken Williams:

Still don't know. But if I got a heads up that squash is going to be on that test, damn if my kids aren't going to know what it means and how it's played by the time the test is taken, I'm going to let someone else go to the capital and talk about why kids in my hood shouldn't be asked about squash. My fear is, see while those things are legitimate, those are legitimate issues. In the end, in the end, the way the kids are looked at is this, why can't those kids learn like everybody else? What's wrong with them that they can't learn like everybody else?

               So I'm that cat. I don't want that label. I don't want the label that, I know stuff isn't fair. I don't have the patience to go up to Capitol Hill on it. I'm going to compensate down on the ground level. But my bigger fear is that our kids, and I'm talking, when I say our kids, kids who are victims of inequitable practice, I'm not talking about just kids of color, because equity transcends race and culture. That's another issue I made clear in the book.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yes.

Ken Williams:

I'm so afraid that our kids are going to be presented as broken so that they can't learn. Listen, I know, I hear principals all the time tell me, and it breaks my heart. I got a principal that I mentor and she's in a rural area. And she's like, "Some of my kids don't have internet at home." Some of my kids don't have this and that at home. And I say, "I get it. I get it, but here's what I want you to focus on, they're with you for most of the awaken hours. They're with you in a place where you do have enough Chromebooks and you do have internet. I get they don't have internet at home. So let's max out the time we have them on the campus, because that's the time we can control instead of spending so much time talking about what they don't have and their disadvantages, because all it does is chip away at what you believe they can do or not do. And that just drives me crazy. And that's a form of complacency that is just pervasive. It's just pervasive.

               It drives me nuts when we talk about kids and then list of 15 things wrong with every kid, because in the end the world's going to look at them as, there's something about you that you can't learn like everybody else. And that scares me more than anything. So I want to arm educators with the habits of mind and practice to leverage their collective expertise in the service of equity. But you got to be clear on what equity is. That's another thing, nobody's clear on it. It's at least when I-.

Sheldon Eakins:

Hopefully the folks that listen to this show have an idea.

Ken Williams:

Oh, I know your folks do. And if you and I could teach all the kids, we wouldn't be in class.

Sheldon Eakins:

Okay. But here's the thing. I think you bring up some good points, actually some really good points I want to touch on a little bit because I've seen this and I've been a victim of this myself, where it's like about equity and I want to make sure that my kids get, their individual needs are being met and then I start to realize, oh, but they're coming from this home. They're coming from that situation. Finances, social, economic side, all these different things. And then you feel, you have this defeated mindset, not the growth mindset that, okay, so I don't have, what is it? If life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.

Ken Williams:

Yeah.

Sheldon Eakins:

But folks aren't making lemonade. And I've been one of those people that has done that. And I've heard a lot of conversations where it's like, well, it's the school district's fault, or it's this person's fault, or the funding, it's this, or it's that. But we recognize that we need change, but we just can't do it because we don't have the resources, what I'm hearing from you, Ken, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like what I'm hearing is that shouldn't be the only reason why, or deterrent why you don't do this work, or why you don't continue to do this work because that is going to perpetuate the complacency. Is that what I'm hearing?

Ken Williams:

That is, because I think too often we form those conclusions on the front end.

Sheldon Eakins:

Okay.

Ken Williams:

We read the list of circumstances and we decide right there.

Sheldon Eakins:

Right then and there.

Ken Williams:

And a lot of this mirrors some of the ills of society, which is another reason why you have to be ruthless, because that noise is coming in from outside. Listen, I use this example in my PD all the time. If you got a barista that you've hired at Starbucks and they've just flown in from Germany and don't speak a word of English, but have to learn how to master these seven recipes. If you've hired that person, you're going to find ways, you're going to build scaffolds, whether it's Google Translator or you got another barista who knows German, whatever it is. In life that's how it works. Here's where you need to be. Here's where you are. How do we close that gap without altering this standard?

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah.

Ken Williams:

But in schools, because we already come, unfortunately poisoned by societal limited thinking, we can rationalize that, yeah, Sheldon doesn't have this. Ken doesn't have that. Sheldon doesn't have this. And then on the front end conclude that we don't have the resources, but in life, what we do is we grapple with the resources. And then when we hit a point where we need more help, we reach out for more help. We're not even grappling. We're looking and saying, you speak a language other than the King's English and therefore you have an IEP. And so therefore we do it on the front end. That's the problem. That's the major problem, we're already concluding. And the equity work that we do, real equity work, what I love about it most is that it removes judgment.

               I use this example all the time. So I'm holding up a remote, it's got eight buttons on it. It's a volume remote to a speaker. And if we decide that every fourth grader in the district has to master this, how to make this remote to be successful in fifth grade, the standardized tests, life beyond the K12 system, then this becomes, if you follow my work, start with the crown, this becomes the crown. And our work is to grow every kid to it. And whatever you dealing with, whatever you got going on, not a lot of support at home, no internet at home, whatever it is, that's context for our response. See, when you don't have this in place, equity requires an essential. If you don't have an essential place that all kids have to go, then you're left to judge.

               And now I'm looking at your circumstances and trying to guess at what I think you can and can't do. Once this is in place, your circumstances become context. That's the beauty of real equity work is that it removes judgment. There is no can Sheldon or can't Sheldon. There's only how will we get him there. And then if it's real equity work that meets the needs of all learners, you're going to have available an opportunity to master a second remote. This one's got, let's just say for illustrative sake, it's got 12 buttons on it. The one with four is required. It's essential. Every kid's got to master it. This one's available for those kids who want to aspire to it, or if you want to push some to it, but it's not required. And then you got kids who come from homes like yours and mine, Sheldon, who've been exposed to a lot, who've seen a lot. Who've been read to. They come with tons of background knowledge. We got to have this remote available too. This one's got 40 buttons on it.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yes.

Ken Williams:

It's not essential, but it's available to every kid, not just the "gifted ones," but every student can avail themselves. So, as my man, Brian Butler talks about, we're going to make gifted education the floor of the classroom. So this is available to everyone, but this is the one that no kid can walk out without. It doesn't remove the challenges we have, it just places things in perspective. And we've all done this in life where the math doesn't add up, the circumstances don't add up, but we know we got to make this happen. Equity is 50% mindset and 50% execution.

Sheldon Eakins:

Do you think many of the teachers that have the, well, we don't have enough resources mindset. You think they have the best intentions, or often is that an excuse as to why the equity work isn't being done?

Ken Williams:

Boy, I don't want to sound like I'm equivocating, but it's a little of both. One of the things I believe, one, I don't think any teacher, nobody comes into education and says, damn I can't wait to fail kids today.

Sheldon Eakins:

No, I hope not.

Ken Williams:

Right. So, there are a couple of issues going on there. One, I believe we have a bit of a crisis of confidence, because when you decide, when a team agrees that every student's got to walk out knowing how to make this, it's easy to say. But when you go into executing that there is a, what I call a going forwardness. Any endeavor that involves all, that's the only reason we collaborate, because all kids got to get it. Even Melvin and Lupe and all them, they got to get it. And the math isn't going to add up. That's why we have to collaborate. The reason we collaborate is because no one teacher has all the answers on how to get every kid to master this. So we have to collaborate.

               And when we talk about ensuring a hundred percent of them, there's a going forwardness to it that I don't believe is much different than the idea you had about starting a business, or the book that you want to write, or the book you've written but not have gotten published yet because you maybe you're fearing what people think, or you fear failure. There is a going forwardness to it. So that's one layer is that we've got to make the environment safe enough for teachers to unleash crazy levels of innovation and focus. The other big issue, the other big issue is leadership. The principal, the principal is the only... I ask audiences all the time. What's the one thing the principal can do that no one else can do? The one thing that principals can do that no one else can do. And the answer is, Sheldon, make things happen school wide.

               The principal has to be a visionary. You got to see the dawn before the day. I'm not saying you don't get frustrated. You're going to get frustrated. I'm not saying you don't come into complaint. Sometimes I'm saying you got to put that stuff in perspective. When I was a principal, teachers could come and they can bitch and moan and complain and let stuff off. If they needed to do that to get on with the rest of the day, I was good with it. I can do everything, but an excuse. Tell me what you need to get this work done, to get this equity work done. And I will move hell in high water to get it. I can't do excuses. I can't do we got bad kids. I can't do we got low kids. I can't do that, but whatever you need in the service of moving all kids to grade level or better, I will go get that for you.

               Too often we say learning for all, but then the leader lets some of that toxic air in the room. You empathize too much with Lil low Johnny or Lil Melvin. You start accepting excuses instead of providing teachers with more support, you start accepting those excuses. And then that stuff just, it's like mold. You know what I mean? You just, you can paint over mold all day long. If you don't get somebody to cut that mess out, you could paint over it all day long, that mold is going to come through. So when we don't have this sold out mission driven, equitable culture that says it doesn't matter who's coming in, we got to figure out a way to get them here, when you don't have that in place, when you're not leading with that as a leader, it just allows for those excuses to seep in and take root and take life.

               And listen, whether it's the excuses themselves, or another thing principals do that is ironically, I just dropped a video on this, this week is, or you're not clear about expectations. I highlight some schools in my book that are doing some great work around dismantling ability groups, because to say we got to dismantle them is one thing, to have a solution is another. And they have a solution. And my challenge to them and their principal was, when is this going to go school wide? You got it solid at three grade levels, but this is so powerful. You've got insane evidence even during the COVID year of student growth, student esteem, students feeling a greater sense of belonging. When is this going school wide, because only you can do that?

               And look, it'd be nice if we could wait for everybody to say, oh my God, now I see it. Now I'm ready to execute best practice, but life doesn't work that way. But too often in leadership we want that. We want folks to come to the light. No, no, part of leadership is taking them to the light because we see the dawn before the day. And we don't have enough of that.

Sheldon Eakins:

When you say, get rid of, or dismantling ability groups, what do you mean by-.

Ken Williams:

Yeah.

Sheldon Eakins:

Tell me more.

Ken Williams:

So the ability groups I'm talking about, see, so if you and I are both fifth grade teachers and we're on a team and we look at our common formative assessment data and we see that I got six kids who are struggling with mixed fractions and your kids are killing it, maybe we do a flexible regroup. So I want us to address stuff by student and by standard, not by label. So I don't have low kids, I got six kids who are not getting mixed fractions the way I'm dealing it, but maybe the way you are dealing it, it may be more effective. So, that's the ability groups I'm talking about, the ones that existed when I went to school and still exist today, the tattoos, the "struggling learners." That's another, that's a complacency word. People don't realize that, but I have a video that talks about, listen, if I were eight years old with my 54 year old brain and you called me a struggling learner, my first thought would be, do I suck at everything? Because that's what we do, we label.

               So, the low kids. Ability groups where kids are taught below grade level all year long. So I tell folks, you keep reading all these books about anti this and anti that, you just read two anti-racist books and you still got kids working below grade level all year long. That is a social justice issue. That is an equity issue. And that transcends race. That's an equity issue. There's no way, there's no way our kids' going to be ready for the world if we still think of education in a linear fashion. So if a kid is a year and a half behind and it's 50 targets a year, that means there's 75 targets behind. If we still think that those all 75 targets have to be made up for that get-to-get to grade level we're in a world of hurt. This world is way too vast, we're in the information age, learning is more like a web now.

               I know you know kids who might be struggling in a specific area with a specific standard of math, but could take the clock off your wall, take it apart with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers, lay it across the table. And then when you yell at him, he'll put it all back together. It'll be working better than it worked before that. So all students have to be taught at grade level or better. And the school's got to provide time during the contracted duty day to close those gaps, but if those kids are never exposed to grade level or better, the way it's done in ability groups, not only at the elementary, I work at high schools that got five algebras before algebra. You got four years of high school and you got five low out of fundamental, fundamental or low, you almost there algebra, a fundamental, fundamental. You not quite there, but almost there algebra. Five algebras for out. We keep creating low groups. When the world demands that we create bridges, that we create bridges, scaffolds between where the student is and where they have to go.

               So, that is a mindset change and why essential learning outcomes like this remote is so critical to equity work. You cannot have equity without an essential outcome. Even the images online where the kids are watching the game, got the equality and the equity side, side by side.

Sheldon Eakins:

Oh, I hate that picture.

Ken Williams:

Me too, but I use it to illustrate this point. On the equity side of it I asked, what is the essential outcome? We want every kid to see the game with an unobstructed view. Equity requires an essential outcome. That's the only way you know if you're giving kids what they need when they need it. And that's how I define equity in a culture of belonging and inclusion, providing every student what they need, when they need it, with urgency to master essential learning outcomes. I want to keep this part of equity work focused on what moves the needle, because if we don't have any kids with achievement issues, we don't have any issues. And in terms of race, I get the question all the time, how do you have conversations about race? I said, I want you to have them, but I want you to have them in the context of equitable practice, not just in isolation, because when you just deal with it in isolation, people do this.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah.

Ken Williams:

And they get super defensive. But if we are engaging in equitable practice and we notice our data says, we've got a pretty significant number of kids identified with special needs who are flourishing or struggling, then we've got context. It doesn't make the conversation easy. And the same thing with race, we look up, we've got kids of color who aren't learning, kids who, Spanish speakers not learning, whatever it is, those conversations can take better root in the context of equitable practice, equitable practice. That is the foundation, that's the fertilizer from which all these "difficult conversations" can come from. And it helps us see that while race and culture may bring equity to the surface, I'm telling you, and you know this. Equity is not completely rooted in race and culture.

               I worked in a district recently, rural district, and it was all white, all white. And yet they almost had a cast system going, the kids from that side of town, the kids in the trailer park, the apartment kids, the nice apartment kids, the single family. And they had expectations attached. And what's funny is when we were planning the day, they were like, oh no, we don't need equity work. We need school culture stuff and PLC and stuff like that. And I got there I was like, look, you got equity issues. The fact that you think those kids over there from that trailer park can't learn, that is a social justice issue. Yeah. I don't care if you are all white

Sheldon Eakins:

People limited to just race, Ken.

Ken Williams:

Yes, because that's what the news tells us. That's what gets clicks. That's the stuff that gets "heated conversations" going. But I don't care about any of that. Teachers are already working hard. I want their work to pay off in results. That's what I'm after.

Sheldon Eakins:

I live in Idaho. I work with a lot of schools that are predominantly white and they'll tell me stuff like, oh, it's not here. It's not our issue, or we only have one or two students of color and blah, blah. And I always say, well, what's the quota, man? How many did you need in order for you to pay attention, because that's why I get a lot, it's like, oh, but we only had one, or we only had two, I'm like, how many did you need? Did you need five? Where was that threshold? Oh, okay. Now we should care.

Ken Williams:

And again, if you got a group of white kids that you consider white trash and you treat them and your expectations are different for them, you got equity issues. You don't need a kid of color. You've got-.

Sheldon Eakins:

They don't think about that.

Ken Williams:

... right now

Sheldon Eakins:

They don't think about, well, the kids' still going to tease each other for your shoes. Who have Jordan's or who has the latest this and who does not, who has a iPhone and who has a flip prepaid or no phone. Those social economics issues across the board, doesn't matter you're LGBTQ+.

Ken Williams:

No doubt.

Sheldon Eakins:

All of that stuff is relevant to kids-.

Ken Williams:

No doubt, no doubt.

Sheldon Eakins:

... these days. And folks forget about that. And I tell you, no, there's always room for growth. Let's do an audit. Let's do an audit. Let's just for kicks [inaudible 00:27:49]. Let's do an audit. Let's see. Let's see.

Ken Williams:

Yeah-.

Sheldon Eakins:

And then when they start seeing they start checking, oh shoot. Oh, we need air... Oh man. We need to change. Oh there's oh, oh, oh. Where do we start? Now they're overwhelmed and I'm like, okay, let's take some small stuff first. Let's celebrate those, let's do some medium and some long term wins, because it's not going to change overnight, but I'm glad that we're starting here because I can't tell you how many schools, or classrooms where folks will say, not here.

Ken Williams:

That's right. That's all over, man. It's all over.

Sheldon Eakins:

That's on national news. That doesn't happen here. That's just news media just trying to... But we don't have that issue here.

Ken Williams:

So yes, no doubt about it.

Sheldon Eakins:

Now I want to go back real quick because, so we talked about the idea of complacency in two areas primarily. We mentioned, the second one we touched on just now about as far as folks saying we don't have resource, or we're too focused on the negative stats. My friend, Dr. Ivory Tolson has a book, Bad Stats. No more BS. No more bad stats. And I think that's a really good book that touches on that. But the first thing that you mentioned was when those "woke folks" enter into those spaces and then you try to give them some guidance or ask questions or try to brainstorm with them. And I guess, because it may not be, I didn't ask or solicited your advice, I know what I'm doing. You said that, that was one other factor or one way of a complacency.

               So I'm just curious, are you seeing a lot, because I see a lot of people. Oh, I just read how to be an anti-racist. Oh, I just read, we need to do more than survival. I read for white folks to teach... I've read all these books. So, I know what I'm talking about and I'm struggling for some reason, but I don't want anybody's help. Is that something you see more of?

Ken Williams:

I definitely see that. I see it, and I'm not disparaging any of those publications at all. I see that while ignoring super obvious opportunities right there on campus. It's almost like we're trying to take a university course and I'm like, you don't need a university course. You got stuff right here. There's stuff right here we can deal with, you don't have essentials in place. We can deal with that. Again you've got rampant ability groups. And then in, God forbid, we break that down by culture and race. You're going to see disparities there.

               You got folks working hard, but not knowing what to do once they have assessment data. I read this book recently called Street Data. It's about that local data. You've got teachers who are working their tails off, but don't know what to do once they get the data back. These are so many things that contribute to inequitable practice. And again, we're too often looking out the window at these huge monstrous overwhelming issues that the kids who are going to be in seats tomorrow can't afford you to be trying to solve. It's just monstrous. And then I'm telling you, I don't deny the kids come to school with issues. I was one of those kids. The problem is, much like society does, we do the math on the front end without trying anything. So, were you ever a classroom teacher?

Sheldon Eakins:

Oh yeah. I was in social studies.

Ken Williams:

All right. So, social studies. So let's say you give a test, kids start the test. I walk up as one of your students and got the test in my hand and I say, I don't know what to do. I need help. You look at the test handed to you. I haven't passed my name. I haven't written a thing. I'm guessing your first response is, what you having trouble with? And I said, with everything, said, but you haven't tried anything yet. Get back there and try some stuff and then come back to me. And then we can diagnose where you're strong and where you're struggling. We don't even engage in equitable practice. We form all the conclusions on the front end. They're low, they're this, they're that, they're from that side of town.

               All I want us to do is engage in getting every kid here, mastering this remote. And then when we come up against barriers, whatever the barriers are, we can address them in real-time. But I think, not only we have a crisis of confidence, I think it messes with us as educators, the idea that all kids have to master something. I think it messes with us. And we start using excuses like, well, why does one size fit all? And we start using that mess. And it's only poor white kids, poor Black kids, poor brown kids. You know what I'm saying?

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah.

Ken Williams:

I watched... I'm from New York city, so it's like a salad bowl, melting pot, whatever you want to call, it's exposed to a lot of different cultures. And I watch Asian cultures and I watch Jewish cultures, man. And they don't complain about that stuff. They just figure it out.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah.

Ken Williams:

They figure it out. They figure it out. We out there, too often, that's not fair. We shouldn't have to learn that. And I'm telling you, it sets us up to look like we're broken. It sets us up to look like we're broken, as opposed to, you and I getting creative, like I know you and I have in our teaching past, where a kid has no background knowledge and no exposure to something, and we got to get creative and innovative to make it happen too often on the front end, as the kids walk into the school, whatever their reputation is, or whatever reputation we cast upon them, we form conclusions on the front end. So then when you and I come in and say, no, no, you got to have a standard. All right. So now what are we doing to grow every kid to that standard? Because what we have in schools is we got standards.

               We got a crown for these kids and a crown for those kids, a crown for kids on this side of town and a crown for the kids on that side of town, a crown for poor white kids, poor Black kids, poor brown kids, a crown for the kids that don't speak to King's English, a crown for kids with IEPs, the ones we consider unmotivated, but there's just one crown in life, one crown. If every kid's got to master this, we got to grow them to it. And when we get stuck, we want to deal with that in context. I don't want to deal with it on the front end. You talking about what you think the kids are capable of, because to me, ultimately, I don't even get into what kids can do. I know kids can learn. To me, it's always a reflection on the adults.

Sheldon Eakins:

Yeah. We blame kids a lot.

Ken Williams:

All day. I tell my adults, look, you sitting here in my office, telling me about these low kids and these low kids and they low and they're low. And when I told them one day, I said, I have failed you. And they're like, what are you talking about? I said, I failed you because it's my job to pour into you as teachers and provide you with the resources and supports to leverage your collective expertise and ensure learning for all kids. But when I hear you, you keep calling our kids low. You know what I hear when the way it hits my ears, I hear you calling your team low and you telling me your team doesn't have the innovation, the internal fortitude, the will, the creativity. And the thing is, I know you do. I know you do.

               And you can still have a life after work, but when you call our kids low, I hear you calling your team low. That breaks my heart. And it tells me that I have failed you as a leader. They did not like that at all. They didn't like it, but it's the truth. We got to be done with, do we believe kids can learn? Give me a break. The question is, do we have what it takes to ensure high levels of learning for all kids? And for the most part, except for just a rare few super toxic places, I look around the room and it's like, who couldn't we teach if we had the right mindset and resources? It starts with the right mindset and practices. Who couldn't we teach? But again, we often carry in societal limits into our work. And that's one of the reasons why you have to be ruthless about shutting that noise out.

Sheldon Eakins:

The idea of deficit thinking versus asset based thinking.

Ken Williams:

All day, all day.

Sheldon Eakins:

It sounds easy, but you still have folks with best intentions.

Ken Williams:

Yes.

Sheldon Eakins:

That still have the deficit frame.

Ken Williams:

One of my colleagues, Gina Rivera, talks about that all the time and then puts it into practice. And I was just at her school or principal Scott [do Galder 00:36:30] just observing teachers as they dismantle ability groups. And she and I think alike in this way, I don't even like the word intervention, or remediation, remediation.

Sheldon Eakins:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ken Williams:

It's always about acceleration. And I just think about, if I'm following you to a gig and I fall three cars behind, do I slow down to catch up or do I speed up? Let's speed up to catch up. So I'm always thinking let's start at grade level or better, and then figure out how to build those scaffolds to maintain that kid being there. Let's get creative with it if we have to. But if we keep looking back at what they don't have, what they do, do here and what they don't have, we're never going to catch up. That's not how life works. That's not how life works.

Sheldon Eakins:

I always say you shouldn't penalize kids for stuff that's out of their control.

Ken Williams:

Absolutely.

Sheldon Eakins:

And I think a lot of times when we throw kids into the enrichment remedial, what these type of course, especially with COVID, I was seeing a lot of kids getting punished, because you have families that had learning pods and had access to get tutors and do all this stuff at home. And you had a group of kids that just didn't have those same opportunities. And then they get thrown into all the, like you said, the pre, pre, prerequisite, requisite to the basic classes-.

Ken Williams:

Or a year and a half of flying the learning loss flag, which I got tired of that real quick.

Sheldon Eakins:

Oh yeah.

Ken Williams:

The whole learning loss. It's funny, I don't know about you, but when I did professional development as we came out of COVID, I would often ask people in the audience who's a first year teacher? Who's a first year principal, first year director, first year anything? Folks raised their hands. And they're like, my first year was during the COVID year. And I'm like, and you came back, you came back. But you know what we did every single time, including the folks who are established and have been there for years, when I look at new teachers who came in and did their first year during COVID and new leaders, I look at them and I tell them, I think to myself, what can't you do? You came through that year. And yet you get nearly all the professional development you should have gotten. You didn't get nearly the support. You got a fraction of the resources. You were on an island a whole lot. And yes we are lauding you as heroes.

               Nobody's talking about teacher loss, nobody's talking about leader loss. All we talk about is learning loss with students because complacency's whispering in our ears. And while it looks good on paper and no one's going to be mad at you for saying it, know your grumpy uncle's going to know better. That's a form of complacency. No other stakeholder in the district do we talk about loss. Only the students.

Sheldon Eakins:

Only the students.

Ken Williams:

The teachers, like I said, teachers and leaders I'm like, if you can lead a school during that COVID year, year and a half, there's none you can't do. And you can just see them just goes. The chest pokes out a little more. And it's the truth, isn't it?

Sheldon Eakins:

Perk up a little bit. Yeah.

Ken Williams:

You know what I'm saying? You know that teacher didn't get all that she needed that year. And yet if she came through and is coming back and has a positive attitude, my thinking is, man, you got an extra layer skin on you. And yet we turn around and then all the kids are broken and it's always the kids who can afford it least. It's always the kids who can afford it least who get the whole learning loss thing. And then we do SE for an entire year. You notice I didn't say L, I didn't say SEL, because it's not SEL most of the time, it's SE, social, emotional, but it's supposed to be social, emotional learning, which should be a constant anyway. But that's what was happening when we were coming out of COVID. It was like, I'm going to just hug kids for the first month and a half and not teach nothing and my kids, because I know they're traumatized. I said, "How do you know they're traumatized? They're not even back yet."

               Can you wait and see what's going on. And then you know what kids need? They need a win. You know when a win comes? When you teach something, they get it. And that comes on. Why do you think kids constantly play video games? My friend, Doug Reeds pointed this out in his great blog post, Don't take the L out of SEL. And we were talking about this. He said, "Video games give kids immediate feedback." Video games say, Sheldon, I know you from the hood. So I'm going to try to say this nicely, but you didn't win that round of the video game, but you are nice and you have a nice smile and demeanor. You lost and you suck, come back later. And what do kids do? They turn it off. They go get some lunch and they come back and get after it.

               But we keep trying to cast kids as broken and delicate and stuff like that. I've never heard a kid complain about them feeling emotionally hurt with the video game said, you stink, come back later. And kids need feedback. And the feedback comes through learning. They come back for it, that they achieve that next level and they feel great about those endorphins fly. They feel like they accomplished something. The video game doesn't say, you just been through COVID, let me just hug you for a while, or let me let you win four rounds on your own so you could feel better about yourself. It's only us and it's almost always the kids who can least afford that kind of mindset.

Sheldon Eakins:

Ken, listen, I definitely consider you as providing a voice and lead in equity, and I feel like I could talk to you all day, man.

Ken Williams:

Thank you brother.

Sheldon Eakins:

I appreciate the conversation. I'd love for you to share one final word of advice to our listeners.

Ken Williams:

Sure, man. Listen, there is no passive path to equity. It is a combination of mindset and practice, and we've got to get away from what I've termed selequity, selective equity and cosmequity, cosmetic equity. Lining your shelves with books authored by authors of color alone is not equity. That's cosmequity. When you do that and combine it with equitable practice in the classroom and in leadership, that's a powerful move. And so we got to get away from theory and symbols and really get down to the work, and it can be done.

Sheldon Eakins:

Got to get away from theories and symbols. Be down to the work, quoted by Ken Williams. Ken, I appreciate you. If we got some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you.

Ken Williams:

Thank you brother. My website, my company is Unfold The Soul, and you can go to unfoldthesoul.com on all social media channels. That's my handle at Unfold The Soul, on Facebook Unfold The Soul, same with Instagram and those are the best ways to follow me. My website will give you all the avenues to everything I do and I would love to connect.

Sheldon Eakins:

Cool. Cool. And again, Ken is the author of Ruthless Equity: Disrupt the Status Quo and Ensure Learning for All Students. Ken, it's been a pleasure.

Ken Williams:

Thank you brother.

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