Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

What's up, folks? Dr. Eakins is here with another episode, bringing it to you. We're talking about blended learning today. My special guest is Jason Green. Jason Green is the bestselling co-author of Blended Learning in Action and co-founder, co-CEO of LINC Learning Innovation Catalyst. In today's conversation, we're discussing what student-centered learning is, what blended learning is, multi-tiered systems of support and blended learning, myths of blended learning and cultural-responsive blended learning. That's right, we're talking all about blended learning today. By the way, if you are looking for some key notes or presentations, workshops, webinars, I'm your guy. Feel free to reach out to me leadingequitycenter.com. Let's work together and I look forward to learning from you as well.

               Welcome to the Leading Equity Podcast. My name is Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins. And for over a decade, I've helped educators become better advocates for their students. What is an advocate? An advocate is someone who recognizes that we don't live in a just society advocates. Aren't comfortable with the status quo and are willing to speak up on behalf of others. No matter where you are in your journey towards ensuring all of your students are equipped with the resources they need to thrive, I'm here to help you build your knowledge and confidence to ensure equity at your school.

               Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is Jason Green. So without further ado, Jason, thank you so much for joining us today.

Jason Green:

Thank you so much, Sheldon. It's great to be here with you.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

We connected through Dee Lanier. Shout out to Dee Lanier and Solve in Time! and everything he has going on, and he linked me with you. And so I'm excited to chat with you. We've talked before. But I'd love for you to start off by sharing a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Jason Green:

Awesome. Well, thanks so much. It's great to be here. As mentioned, name is Jason Green. I am the co-founder and co-CEO of an organization called LINC. LINC has been around now for about five years. And our mission is to create more engaging learning for students. And we do that by supporting teachers in building practice that are student centered, that are rooted in what we call pedagogical problem solving. So what we're doing is really helping teachers zero in on the needs of learners, so that classrooms become highly personalized and enabled to meet the needs of unique learners' needs.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Loving it. So you said student centered and I hear that word get thrown out a lot these days, student centered, teacher centered and all these type of things. What does it mean? Because you said personalized, so I have an idea as far as what that means, but I'd love for you to expound upon that a little bit more when you say student centered.

Jason Green:

So it's actually a great question. It's one that we, I spend a lot of time on. Is really not only defining terms, but really being clear on the kinds of classrooms that we are seeking to help create. So ultimately the goal that we have is that every classroom is able to create a forum that is equitable for all learners, where students, regardless of their backgrounds culturally, linguistically, socioeconomically, what have you, that they're able to actually experience learning in a way that works for them. And what we found is, I co-authored a book a couple of years ago called Blended Learning in Action. And so part of the work that we've done is really connecting the practices of blended learning to how that actually can become a foundation for creating classrooms that are actually equitable.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Got it. Okay. Okay. I wrote it down in a way that works for students, for them and, to me, that's the whole basis behind what equity is. We send out assessments and we have our teaching styles and our practices, but doesn't necessarily mean it's going to reach everyone across the board. Now I want to talk about blend learning, because my definition prior to us having... We met a few weeks ago and my thoughts behind blended learning was "Okay, blended learning is a process where a student gets a option between some sort of an online platform and also classroom instruction." And the blended piece is "Okay, a student gets a set of questions and based on how they answer that question is going to set them up for the next question that they're going to get as a means to help strengthen or master the content." But you said that there was a little bit of a difference with my definition of blend learning and the work that you do. So I would love to get your take as far as what is blended learning?

Jason Green:

Absolutely. So what you just described actually could be used in a blended classroom and what you describe is a little bit more how I would look at what an adaptive digital curriculum would actually do for a student. When we think about blended learning though, it's a little bit more of an umbrella and a good starting point for blended learning is the Christensen Institute, who define blended learning as, essentially, a way to create a more personalized learning experience for learners by giving them more control over the time place, path, and pace of their learning. And it's, essentially, leveraging technology to do that. So a couple of important terms that we talked about, time, place, path, and pace. But we also discussed this increasing of agency and ownership for the learner.

               And typically in a blended classroom, technology is able to actually be the accelerator or in some ways the catalyst, so that the teacher, and this is where it gets really exciting for me, where the teacher can shift from spending most of their time at the front of a classroom in delivery of content to then being able to have other ways that content can be delivered. Maybe it is a video, maybe it is an article, maybe it's some other artifact that's being used, but in essence, the technology can be a way that the teacher isn't solely focused on delivery of content.

               And get this. When the teacher can spend less time in delivery of content, they can spend more time doing all kinds of other stuff. Maybe that's intervention support, maybe that's more projects-based learning, maybe that's setting up a collaborative group in a classroom. But in essence, the real goal that we see in a blended classroom is moving the teacher from being at the front and delivery of content mode to actually being able to be in a better position to facilitate learning experiences that then are able to have, as we talked about earlier, a much more diverse set of instructional methods, modes that are then able to reach more learners in a deeper way.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

So I want to hone in on the tiered piece, because I was on Twitter not too long ago. And I saw a post, and I can't remember who it was that posted it, and I thought it was interesting. It was basically stop pulling kids out of general tier one, stop pulling kids into tier two, tier three during instructional time. That is not the way to go. There wasn't any solutions behind it. It was just like stop doing it. And so I was watching the comments as they're coming in through this thread. And I was just thinking, because some of the points that people were bringing up, "Okay, well, if we're supposed to do a multi-tiered structure, when are kids supposed to come into those tier two, tier three environments?" And a lot of times schools will pull them out during specials, your PEs, your math, not your math, your music, the arts, those type of things is when kids get pulled.

               What I'm hearing from your perspective is when it comes to blend learning, if I have technology that's available for our students to learn, again, on a personalized instructional path, there are other things for teachers to be able to do during this time. So if we got folks that are in multi-tiered systems, can you give us a little bit more? What could that look like in a blended classroom?

Jason Green:

Absolutely. So when you think about it, and every classroom has different learners. There's all kinds of neurodiversity. There's all kinds of students who might be more ready for certain exercises. You have diversity that goes throughout any classroom, anywhere. So part of what we're actually saying is in most traditional classroom settings, the approach has been, "Let's actually have the teacher share something," usually a delivery of content, "...that ends up landing at a certain level." Now, not only does that prevent the level of diversity that can happen in the learning experience, but what's also happening is everybody always talks about is you're probably teaching to the middle as best as you can. You're losing students maybe that are a little bit further advanced in that skill or further behind, which is already a problem. But what you're also removing is the student's ability to have some level of voice and choice in what their learning experience is.

               So in our book and the work that we do with LINC is we begin to introduce different models for how a teacher could think about designing the classroom. So one example is what we call a station rotation. So now in a station rotation classroom, you could actually have a couple of different stations. Maybe there is a teacher station where the teacher's working with a small group of students. Maybe there's a digital station where students are doing more independent work, but that's at their level. Maybe there's a collaboration station that may be a project or some way the students are engaging together. Now just think about that classroom. Now what you've done is you've brought in multiple modalities of learning, because we all know that the recent research is that most of us aren't a type of learner. We do best when we're given different ways in which material is engaging with us or that we're getting material.

               So now this classroom is, maybe that teacher center is intervention support where the teacher is able to do smaller group work. Maybe that digital station is the classroom you described earlier where you're doing some adaptive digital curriculum that is supporting your specific pace and path. Maybe that collaboration station is a creativity project. And now imagine those students in each station then rotating after 15, 20 minutes, or whatever makes sense, to the next station. Now we've got different modalities that teachers are able to engage their learners in. And one last point on this, it's very easy to think about even doing those tiers by what people would consider the skill level for the learner.

               And what if there were other ways to think about how you might do grouping? What if there was grouping instead around the readiness to engage with material? What if there was actually grouping around how students were able to collaborate more effectively together? So now you can even get more creative on how you even think about the structures of groups that aren't just based on the very singular way in which we sometimes think about how to group students. And that's just one model, that's the station rotation. And there's also flip classroom which people heard a lot about, there's playlists that are actually even more personalized. And then there's even something that we call a whole-group rotation that allows for a teacher to still keep some of the aspects of a more traditional classroom without, let's say, diving so far into what sometimes people say is a big leap to move into some of these other structures.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Now is the station rotation, even whole group, and in the smaller... is that for both levels, elementary and secondary?

Jason Green:

We have seen and worked with classrooms at every level, from kindergarten through 12, even, for that matter, some pre-K that have actually done various things with this model. One of the neatest things, and sometimes you'll hear it at the high-school level, especially is, "My students don't really want to do stations." I will tell you when a teacher begins to give more agency and ownership where students can actually have a little bit more control over their learning, initially there's resistance, because that's not how we've been taught. In most cases, we've been taught to be passive receivers of information. And that's the muscle, unfortunately, that we have developed is the muscle to be passive. So as you actually cultivate a new muscle that is around agency, around voice, again, around choice, now you have a learner that's beginning to feel a lot more empowered.

               And so when we think about what today's learners need to be able to do, it actually requires them to have a level of agency and empowerment in their learning. So they're going to be ready to do all the things that we hear about that are going to come in 10, 20 years. The robo technology, the automation, all the things that are happening so quickly. We actually know that learners today, they need to be just as adaptive. And so the work that we are really doing is creating classrooms where that muscle, we actually called it generativity. It's a muscle of being a generative learner where teachers are building structures and classrooms where students are able to actually start to build this generative muscle, where they're the ones who are owning and leading and becoming agents of their learning.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

This is some good stuff. So I'm excited. So here, here's a question I have. We live in a society and it's 2022. We live in a society where folks that are entering into the job force are often not going to work by themselves. So the workplace is not necessarily a personalized environment. Maybe you're lucky, but the majority of the time, that's not the case. There's folks that say, "Well, we don't believe in personalized learning experiences, because it doesn't necessarily prepare folks for teamwork." So I saw your face, because I'm throwing it out, because I want to give you an opportunity to debunk the myth that personalized-based learning doesn't necessarily translate to those job skills that we will probably have or they will probably have once they finish high school.

Jason Green:

Absolutely. So one of the things that we often think about when we get that question is number one with that conception, I agree. If somebody is only doing in front of their device, only working on their own, only doing independent work, that is a huge miss. And that's why a lot of the early classrooms that began to actually go one to one, what you saw was the teacher in front of the classroom and then a bunch of students in rows on their devices. Fundamentally, nothing actually changed from what those classrooms were before technology to when they had technology, because you still had a very monolithic approach where every student was doing about the same thing by themselves and it wasn't necessarily creating any more engagement. What it became was digital workbooks. Instead of being on paper, they were now just on a device.

               Sp when people incorporate technology in that way, I actually think it's a huge miss. So what I shared earlier was the more modalities that we can bring into a classroom, the more likelihood we have of actually engaging students where their needs actually are. And so this is where I'll go back to the station rotation example. Remember one of those stations actually could be a collaboration station, where students are actually learning how to collaborate together. Even in the flip classroom model, which we didn't talk about too much earlier, but in a flip classroom model, that's where the students may actually, let's say, watch a video or read an article outside of class and then come to class. And that's when the discussion happens or projects happen.

               So even in that model, even though there is a period of time where the students may be doing some independent work, part of the goal is that when they're in class now we're actually engaging in rich discussion in projects or other kinds of modes. So when they talk about personalization, we actually view it as a way to bring all these different modalities into a classroom. We even have, at LINC, we created what we call the PAACC and that's our personalization umbrella. And what it stands for is agency, authenticity, connectivity, and creativity. And we actually believe the most exceptional personalized classrooms are bringing in those elements all the time, agency and learning, authenticity and learning, connected learning, and creative learning. That's what we believe is the real jewel when you get to personalized learning.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Got you. I had to throw it out there, because those questions, I see folks... People are always trying to figure, "Oh, this is just another strategy that's going to fly by night. My new admin wants to do this and then it is only going to last for so long. And here's some things that's wrong with it." So I'm glad you were able to explain that. Here's the next thing I want to ask you, because when it comes to personalized learning and we're talking about technology and, let's say, for example, there's a school or organization that wants to reach out to LINC and they would like to incorporate this into their curriculum and instruction. What are some ways that if I am a school principal or school leader and I'm interested, how can I... Where's the cultural responsiveness within this? Is this something that the kids or the LINC is creating from the beginning? How do we make sure that it's not just a in the box, I just purchase this program and then I just take it as is?

Jason Green:

So another great question. So what we found is the hardest lift in any of this work actually is the shift in culture and mindset. So we started the conversation, I mentioned that the core of LINC's work is really in supporting teachers in creating classrooms that are personalized, that are student centered, which means many of the educators that we work with start from a place that is them as the content owners or domain experts, which means they've actually adopted practices and ways of teaching that are, "I'm the one who says the things and the students are the ones that hear the things from me." So you might have heard the phrase moving from sage on the stage to guide on the side. So I love that term, because what it actually speaks to is a shift in mindset.

               Now shifts in mindset don't just happen. They have to be intentional. And that actually starts with leadership. So when we're working with schools and with school systems, the place that we actually like to start is working first with leaders. And that might mean in a large school system, like one of our partners is New York City, Department of Education is largest in the world just about or in the U.S. for sure, is working first with leaders, within various regions and then within schools, to think differently, now get this, to think differently about how they are supporting teachers. Because imagine going to a group of teachers, let's say hundreds of them in a room, telling them all the same thing about personalized learning and then modeling the exact opposite. That's what most professional development is doing right now. It's telling teachers to do the exact opposite of what their current learning experiences are in their professional development.

               And so the place that we like to start is working with leaders around shifting mindset toward what is personalized learning, what is student-centered learning and how can we create that first with our teachers? Because what we found is when teachers experience it as learners, there's an aha moment. "Oh, so I was able to work at my pace to work in this small group. It wasn't just a force feeding of information on me. I was able to choose what instructional skill I wanted to actually focus on." You see? So now as teachers are getting more experience in that personalized learning, now they have a reference point to then take to their classrooms. So the work that LINC does starts with leaders usually. We support leaders in developing, personalized learning for their teachers. And then we actually then work with teachers to then build and design those new kinds of classrooms for their students. And it literally is a blended model, where part of it is direct coaching and workshops. And part of it is a synchronous support that they're able to get through our virtual learning environment, blended learning.

               So we're literally creating blended learning environments for teachers as we're helping them better structure their blended classrooms.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Love it. That's pretty dope. That's pretty dope. So after the training, it'll be on the teacher to incorporate the cultural responsive practices within the framework.

Jason Green:

That's right. Well, it's on the teachers with that ongoing support. And so we know people don't shift practice, because you went to one great workshop. You shift practice, because you've actually gone through that mindset work. You've tried something. Maybe it didn't work the first time, so you tried it again. I mentioned to you a couple weeks ago, we actually have a over 10 years now relationship with Dr. Arnetha Ball out of Stanford university who did really deep work of what it looks like to support the evolution and development of educators. And so she's incorporated adult learning science into the professional learning structures. And so now what we're doing is we're in partnership with her, have actually developed out how to really think about professional learning from a framework of adult learning science. And so it's not just on the teachers. Now they have these ongoing support structures that we provide, that the school's able to provide, the virtual systems. And so that culturally responsive piece is embedded all the way through.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Good.

Jason Green:

The other piece that's really exciting for me in this is as a teacher begins to actually cultivate these new skills, students actually see the teacher now as a learner. Student sees teacher learning, which now means that student has a model of what learning looks like. So our research has actually shown that the more that teachers engage in, again, I'll use the word this generative model. The more that the student sees the teacher do that, the student is now able to model that in their own learning experiences. So now you have a classroom that is teacher as learner first, student as learner that's able to model from the teacher.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Boy. Okay. All right. You are blowing my mind. And I almost want to be like, "Well, why isn't every school doing this?"

Jason Green:

That is our mission. So our big audacious goal as a company is we actually want to reach 100 million learners to help them build this skill of generativity. Because we actually believe that this is what's going to be the thing that's going to help create the problem solvers the world needs, the creative people, the innovators, the people who are really out there and have the skill to bring the world what it needs, this is it. It's not enough anymore, as you know, to just be good at information. It's not enough to just be a great speaker or to be able to do a single thing. You actually have to be a much more cultivated learner. So our mission is to actually create what we call 100 million generative humans that have this skill of learning, how to learn in an ongoing way.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

There we go. All right. I like that. I like that. All right. Well, Jason, I definitely consider you as providing a voice in leading equity. I love for you to close us out with maybe your final thoughts on this subject.

Jason Green:

Absolutely. Well, number one, thank you so much for having me, for having me be a part of this. My final thoughts on this subject is the heavy lift that our institutions, and I mean schools and school systems, right now, this is the heavy lift that we must actually go through. And that is shifting our schools from places where learners view themselves as passive receivers, to learners who are actually engaged and empowered in their learning journey. This is the heavy lift, because so much of the historical aspects of schools has been evaluative. It's been you've got to learn a certain thing by a certain point of time. "You have to show me that you've learned it by the way that I want you to show me." All these things that we know fly in the face of equity are, unfortunately, the same things that have, essentially, built this system.

               And so there is a shift in both culture and mindset and even structures and policies that we need to actually go through to get to this place where classrooms really do work for all learners. And I think it's starting to happen. You're starting to see more of an emphasis on things like competency-based learning. You're seeing more of an emphasis on classrooms that have projects-based learning, more conversation around student-centered learning and especially around equity. So I think it's starting to happen. And my invitation and encouragement to all educators is to continue to push and break the barriers that may prevent classrooms working for all students, especially students that we know have been fundamentally overlooked or not served by the systems.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

Thank you, Jason. If we got some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Jason Green:

Absolutely. So would love to hear from folks. My email is my full name, Jason Green, no E on the end of Green @linclearning.com. So jasongreen@linc, L-I-N-C learning.com. You can also see me on Twitter, @jasontoddgreen. And for those of you who want to go deeper, absolutely we'd love for you to check out the organization, LINC Learning at www.linclearning.com .and please reach out. I'd love to connect.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

And what's the title of your book?

Jason Green:

And the title of the book is Blended Learning in Action. And this book has actually become a staple amongst schools and school systems and educators literally worldwide in really thinking about how to shift classrooms to these various blended models that I referred to earlier.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

All right, folks. Jason Green, thank you so much for your time. It has been a pleasure.

Jason Green:

Thank you so much, Sheldon. I look forward to speaking with you again soon.

Dr. Sheldon L. Eakins:

This episode was brought to you by the Leading Equity Center. For more podcast interviews and resources, head on over to leadingequitycenter.com.

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