Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:

Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is a fellow Idahoan, mister Adan Dela Paz is here with us today. So without further ado, Adan, thank you so much for joining us today.

Adán [00:00:20]:

Thank you for having me, Sheldon. I'm excited.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:23]:

My pleasure. I'm excited as well because we're gonna be getting into some of the challenges with identity and culture. But before we get into today's topic, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Adán [00:00:34]:

I am a consultant, in the space of diversity and inclusion. I look at it through an intercultural lens, and the focus of my work really is to help individuals, school leaders, organization leaders, build richer communities of understanding, belonging, and solidarity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:50]:

Love that. Love that. So how did you get your start into doing this work?

Adán [00:00:54]:

Great question. You know, I I'm a I'm a educator. I'll always be a teacher. You know, I'm a big believer in, you know, I love to Teach, and I'd love to be taught. You know, always have that, lifelong learner mindset. I think that from a a young age, I've always been focused on wanting to, learn about culture, learn about identity, mainly through things that I experienced growing up. Some of it good. Some of it not so good.

Adán [00:01:18]:

Right? And, as I was, you know, becoming an adult and forming my identity, I started looking at, education. I started looking at nonprofit management. I I found that I wasn't quite finding my niche, and, I decided to get into international education, spent some time in Latin America, more in Asia. In fact, nearly a decade when you put it all together, that I was in Asia and, and found to be very transformative. And, I it ended up being something that I enjoyed so much that I came back, higher ed, started looking at doing work in the, international education global ed space, But had an opportunity here in Idaho where I could combine, working with, international students and scholars, but also domestic students of color, BIPOC students. And, as somebody who is from the US, but, obviously, I'm Latino from a minoritized group, I can relate to that lived experience. So I was like, okay. I wanna go ahead and see if I can do this and make the 2 kinda worlds come together.

Adán [00:02:22]:

And I found that as the more I did it, the more parallels. Right. The more threads of connection I found, and it really shaped, the work that I do today.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:30]:

Alright. Well, let's let's talk about the work that you do today because, You know? I I I I I'm a proponent of sense of belonging as well, and I think that's very important. And part of that sense of belonging is feeling like you are accepted, supported, and included within an environment school culture that you're in. And part of that is your identity. However, there can be some challenges when it comes to identity and culture. So I wanted to have that conversation with you. In the work that you're doing, why don't you share with us maybe what is maybe a challenge that you are seeing when it comes to culture and identity?

Adán [00:03:05]:

One of the things that that, you know, we talked about at the beginning, Being in Idaho, I do work, you know, beyond Idaho, but thinking of a of of a particular group that I'm working with that is, Focused on, you know, this idea of, predominantly white institutions, right, and how that can be challenging as you see, a lack of representation, Which lack of representation is this idea of just an understanding from a lived experience of what somebody's going through. And so that's not to put any blame on our educators. Right? Our faculty members, right, our administrators that, In some ways, don't know what they don't know because they haven't been able to experience it firsthand. However, that really makes it important for there to be people In that institution, in that school that do know what it's like and are able to have those conversations with students, understand those needs and supports that are there. In some places, you know, the idea of pair parent or family engagement, right, we have to shift not just parents. Some of our students don't even, you know, have homes where their parents are there, but they're being raised by by others. And so this family engagement comes into it. And so this idea of having people that really Understand what our students are going through is is key because, it's just not about learning about a specific curriculum We're going through learning objectives, but it's also taking the students holistically as they are.

Adán [00:04:27]:

You know? So one of the things that I always think about is how do we help Develop those competencies, those those skill sets in our educators so that they can go ahead and, be the best leader for those students, you know, in in the classroom, in the school.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:40]:

Adan, you bring up a good point, right, when it comes to culture, especially at predominantly white institutions. I I I wanna touch on that for a second because I know when I was I was working at a institution in the state, and one of the big pushes was to become a his Hispanic serving institution. And so there's all this criteria, And and so there's a lot of you know, there's a whole membership and there's there's I remember them going around and and trying to get, you know, support and, you know, talking to the students and those kind of things. So I see a lot of institutions that are attacking on that label. Hey. Come on in. And we are a Hispanic serving institution or we're this serving institution. You know, we care about I see a lot of those kind of things happening.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:27]:

When I was listening to your responses, like, at the end of the day, a lot of our institutions, for example, the PWIs, there are a lot of staff who do not reflect or look like the students that they're serving. However, that same institution might have that label of being a Hispanic serving institution on top of it. I'm curious because you have a lot of work or a lot of experience working in higher education. What are your thoughts when it comes to the conversation regarding a predominantly white institution and having on those. I don't wanna I don't know if label is the best way to to describe it, but have it you know, being categorized as such as a Hispanic survey institution.

Adán [00:06:12]:

The most important thing is that anytime you venture into bringing in unique student populations, you have to do your homework. Mhmm. Right. You really have to do your homework, and it goes back to an organizational and institutional commitment to doing the work. Right. When we think about diversity and inclusion, right, in higher education that uses term inclusive excellence, it says that there's a Share responsibility for inclusive excellence. Right? And I'm always like, well, what are we sharing? Nobody's talking about what's shared. Right? The idea that our schools and our classrooms, that there's co creation.

Adán [00:06:48]:

Right? There's this idea of ownership amongst all really helps To have people buy in to the initiative that we're talking about. Right? I always say, how do you have ownership for something you have no belonging for? Right? You have to have a community come together And discuss how is this gonna work, how is this gonna look, what resources can we leverage internally, what external partners do we need to bring in, How are we gonna make this happen? Because we are not gonna be able to take on a new initiative like a Hispanic serving institution and keep things the way they are, the status quo, if you will. Yeah. There has to be Right. Changes that come into place. And are the people currently in place willing and able to take on that change? Right? Create those conditions for optimal student success, Or do we need to go ahead and reimagine and revisit how we're gonna make that happen? I'm not sure that enough schools really sit down and take a hard look in the mirror and say, are we ready for this, or do we Go ahead and do some homework.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:48]:

Alright. I I'm with you. I'm with you on that. And and I what I'm hearing is it's more than just a set of letters. It's more than set of accolades or ribbons or prize or certifications, whatever it is. There has to be some action behind all this. Yeah. I I can put it I can easily craft a slogan together or mission statement.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:08]:

But if I'm not actually putting in the work to ensure not just myself who's leading this organization or who's leading this department, but the staff, the team that I'm working with is also part of that life as well, then what's the purpose? So I I I I I totally agree with what you're saying. It's like, okay. Yes. I think a lot of those these memberships and these organizations, I think they're great, but I don't want them to just be another, piece of of paper or certification or recognition without the action.

Adán [00:08:42]:

If we're not careful, we also have burnout from some of our top staff and some of our top educators because what happens is the burden of the work is shouldered by those individuals when there isn't the infrastructure in place. Right. And then there's that cultural taxation. Mhmm. Right? There's that abuse and neglect of our representation that we do have, And then we're scratching our heads saying, why are those people leaving our institutions? Why are they leaving our classrooms? The infrastructure has to be there. There has to be that, Right. The the system of care to help those individuals provide supports, ongoing development, and, and so much more. And sometimes those are sort of Thoughts, and they cannot be afterthoughts.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:23]:

So that brings me to my next point, and and you touched on it with the cultural taxation. I mean, I lit up as soon as I heard you say it because I think that could be another challenge when it comes to culture and identity. Cultural taxation could could be I would I mean, it can happen on a student level, and, also, it can happen on the staffing level. You know, I speak one language, for example. I I speak English, and and that's all I got for you. However, I know a lot of my Latinx folks, they get called in to translate or a lot of folks that speak multiple languages. They're they're often asked to do translating or, to to be a mediator between a parent or whatever it is, and it's not part of the job description. And the same thing happens to a lot of our students, for example.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:08]:

Like, you know, students come on campus. They wanna interact with the professor, and then what they have to Try to explain this to parents. So now they're serving as kind of, you know, the mediators or translators for their families. And, again, they still gotta Turn in the 10 page assignment in addition to having to translate and and and be able to do those things. Is that something that you're seeing as well when it comes to cultural taxation?

Adán [00:10:33]:

Yeah. The idea of, you know, interpreting, translating, and then just being, in some spaces, someone who understands, right, has a cultural competency to understand how to navigate, right, different needs of of community members. I know that There there's there's this idea of sort of the the social cultural capitals as well that people understand how to navigate systems, whether it be, I love that TED talk by, doctor Anthony Jack, right, where it talks about how there's this idea of students and do they understand what, like, professor office hours are, and aren't sure how to navigate that because they don't have any guides. So we have a lot of our programs where there is an infrastructure are built on mentor programs. So we have older students helping younger students because we don't necessarily have infrastructure with faculty and staff To do that work and we're having the older students that have gone through those trials, those tribulations, and struggle to say, I remember those struggles. I'm gonna help you. So when you come in, you don't have to, you know, experience those things or minimize those. So we're relying on some of our older students that aren't getting paid, aren't getting compensated necessarily to go ahead and help some of our other students from, you know, marginalized backgrounds navigate systems that, Quite honestly, we should be having professionals do.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:52]:

So what would you suggest? What's the solution for those type of challenges?

Adán [00:11:55]:

First thing is is is it starts at the top. Right? We gotta have leadership That is fully committed and, are willing to roll up their sleeves. You know? I know that when I see leaders that are gonna say, you know, I'm gonna sit through all these meetings. I'm gonna go ahead and sit through trainings. I have a lot of respect. Leaders that are transparent, that kind of tell you where things are at. They give you updates. They're not just here and say, we're gonna figure this out, then you don't hear from them for 3 or 4 months.

Adán [00:12:19]:

Mhmm. And then they send a liaison or somebody else to kinda be the messenger, And you're like, what happened? You know, I really like that vulnerable leadership. Even when things aren't great, just just be transparent. We understand that things change, that things, right, have to be modified and adjusted. That's that's the nature of, you know, of of just life. But when you share that with us, when you have constant communication, that's powerful. That's that that makes us want to continue to, you know, support, right, the efforts that are being put forth. We're humans.

Adán [00:12:48]:

Don't Leave us to assume the worst. If you don't communicate, we're gonna assume the worst. So I think it really starts with that leadership, that role modeling, right, their engagement in everything. But there also has to be a plan. There you know, that that's where I'm big when I never say conclusion work that I do in, action planning. There has to be a strategy. So everybody's developing strategic plans. Do those plans align with these initiatives? Right? They shouldn't be tack ons.

Adán [00:13:13]:

They shouldn't be add ons. If your action plans for becoming an h I HSI, for example, do not align with the strategic plan, If you have to change the language in your strategic plan or you change your language in your initiatives for HSI, that's already an issue. They should be congruent. And so they have to be done right in tandem. So, I see a lot of organizations that aren't doing that, but I see a number that are starting to, and they're saying, wow. This is a little Hard. Well, it's gonna be hard in the beginning. Like we were saying, you gotta put the reps in.

Adán [00:13:43]:

You gotta put the practice in, and over time, it's gonna become easier, and it's become second nature. So I think that's another thing that's important that we have leadership role modeling, but also understanding this has to be part of a a bigger strategy.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:55]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It has to be. And and as you mentioned, you know, sometimes what will happen is we know I I don't wanna make it seem like I'm I'm bashing our our our university or our higher presidents, but, you know, they just have a lot going on. You know, a lot of it's fundraising. A lot of it is interacting with the community, and there's a lot of things going on. Sometimes things get left or or forgotten.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:19]:

I always say, you know, we we put emphasis on things that we find important. So let's say, for example, you and I, we're we identify as people of color. So naturally, you know, within our communities and things like that, those are things that are important to us. However, if I am an individual who's in a leadership role and I do not, like, those aren't as important to me, other focuses of areas of focus is my, emphasis is is on, then that can cause some challenges or things kinda get left behind. Again, not an excuse or or justification. It's just more of it's we're human beings at the end of the day, and and I try to assume that everybody has the best intentions. So I think if we are brought like, if someone brings this to my attention, if I'm in a a a role where I can make change, I'm in a leadership position, and someone, a student, or individuals are bringing this stuff to my attention. It's bringing my awareness, and then I still pass that off to someone else they don't take the ownership into that, that's where I I have issues.

Adán [00:15:21]:

I agree a 100% with you. You know, I always Say that you know? Especially when we're we're we're focusing our talk here on higher ed. You know? I always say you're you're gonna be hard pressed to find A leader in higher ed at whatever level beyond his president. So I used to say senior leaders. You'll be hard pressed to find a leader that will say that diversity of inclusion, this inclusive excellence, all these sort of initiatives that we're discussing are are not important. You'd be hard pressed to find somebody who will say that. The thing that I always say though is that What what happens though when it becomes a matter of what's important versus a matter of what's a priority? Right? Because it's easy to say it's important, But then when you prioritize it, right, that's when you're saying, we're gonna go ahead and make sure that there's a budget. We're gonna make sure that there's resources allocated.

Adán [00:16:05]:

I'm gonna make sure I attend those events. Maybe not all of them, or maybe I'm gonna send somebody to represent, you know, me, And they're gonna be able to say that I wasn't able to make it, but I also wanna have a report on my desk in the morning or whatever that might be To show that commitment. Maybe there's gonna be a newsletter or write some sort of commune correspondent communication that goes out where there's a --ception that can be touched on. I don't know about you, but when I see things that I work on, especially with students from marginalized backgrounds, and it makes it into those statements From senior leaders, I I can get excited. I feel like, wow. They're paying attention. They care. I'm valued.

Adán [00:16:42]:

We're valued. We do matter. Right? So that that makes a difference.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:46]:

The importance. Something can be important versus the priority. And we know what's the priority when we see the funds getting sent that way. Like you said, I mean, it can be important, but if I'm not spending any money, if I'm not allocating, if I'm not hiring and being intentional with my practices, then it is not a priority. That right there, Adan, was mic drop for you, man. If I had, some some sound effects or something going on. I I would throw that at you right now. That that was that was the one for me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:14]:

That that was definitely one for me. So I appreciate that. But you're You're exactly right. I think that's very important. So okay. We've talked about cultural taxation. We talked about some challenges, like when we're talking about a predominantly white tuition that may not have a lot of representation and just making sure that the staffing, the support, the programming, the departments, everything, the leadership is very attuned to understanding that there's various identities and that are represented, languages that are represented. And there is a priority set when it comes to the initiatives, especially when it comes to change.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:50]:

Are there any other identities or cultural challenges that you wanted to bring up today?

Adán [00:17:56]:

When everything comes together with intersectionality, that's where it goes to that next level rise. So start seeing, right, that there are people that are multidimensional in their identities And that you bring into play positionality, power dynamics, and how that impacts them, how that oppresses them, how it can hold some of our students back. I think it's really important that we have leaders, whether they're doing the work when it comes to doing the strategic planning or whether they're faculty in a classroom or just, you know, student affairs staff, that they understand that because that creates challenges that sometimes when we're saying, Why are they struggling? Why aren't they able to keep up in the classroom? Why are they not participating or engaging? Why are retention levels so low? We gotta look at that as well. I think that's really important.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:44]:

Yeah. Intersectionality, I think, is very important. I I I totally agree with that Because, I mean, our our kids can meet several different challenges. You know? It's pride month happening right now at the time of this recording. But you could be a person of color that could be atheist and be part of LGBTQ plus community. So you're probably facing a lot of this maybe discriminations in several different ways. And, what what kind of suggestions or tips do you have for folks to, you know, maybe be more aware or be more mindful of some of those challenges that our students are facing.

Adán [00:19:22]:

A couple tips that really made my growth really take off was participating in things like intergroup dialogues more in interfaith programming. Right? Right? Like this intercultural. Right? That I I I'm a big believer in interculturality. Right? These spaces where you're bringing in people from very diverse backgrounds. And the idea is that you're gonna share space and build community. So you're gonna have people from different faiths And non faiths coming together, and they have to go ahead and make it happen. They do programming. They do events.

Adán [00:19:55]:

They become community. Intergroup dialogue. You have people from all kinds of different belief systems, value systems, and backgrounds coming together and committing to working through difficulties. Right? And this idea with the inter right, among, or between, is continue through, right interculturality, which really, I define it with 3 components. 1, promotional dialogue. We're living in a very polarized time right now, And so if we're gonna go ahead and move beyond right conflict, we need it's not about avoiding conflict. Right? It's actually about embracing. Right? If we're gonna have diverse spaces, there's gonna be difference.

Adán [00:20:29]:

There's gonna be difference of ideas, difference of perspectives. So it's not avoiding conflict, it's actually finding healthy and functional ways for managing right conflict. That's what's important. Respect for inherent dignity is another one. It's our shared humanity. How do we go ahead and build community? By understanding that we have, you know, shared purpose, shared mutual. We're there's this idea of this this we have all have as human beings value and worth. Right? That's the start that's the baseline for community building.

Adán [00:20:59]:

And as we go from there, Right. That's where we're gonna go ahead and look for those parallels. There's a connection that can bring us together. It's hard. It's hard work. I'm not gonna say it's easy, but That's the challenge. And then the last 1 is preservation of identity culture, kind of going back to where we started. Right? It's this idea of, as we have these conversations, Yes.

Adán [00:21:18]:

We're gonna find the forensic connection. We're gonna find the parallels. However, it's not at the expense of diminishing someone's identity, diminishing somebody's culture. We have to have those conversations as well. So we're looking for what brings us together as we build rapport and relationships, then we're gonna move and kind of look, You know, take things back a step and then say, okay. Now I'm gonna go ahead and look at what sort of makes us different. And that's where we can look at intersectionality. And, hopefully, if we have relationships, we can become, advocates and allies and support one another and say, wow.

Adán [00:21:49]:

I didn't realize Now that I know what we share, what we don't, and how that impacts you, how that adversely impacts you, how can I go ahead and support you? Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and now do that for you as well, the law of reciprocity. I'm gonna go ahead and support you because you're supporting me. So that really was transformational, doing that inner group dialogue work, doing interfaith work. If you can get into those spaces and really challenge yourself, you're gonna see, how how how that will also be transformational for you. So I'd recommend

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:19]:

not only is it transformational for students, but it's transformational for you as well. I think that's a great way to to to sum it all up. And and and but you gotta be willing to have that conversation like you said. So that's promoting that dialogue. So great, great, great stuff, Adan. I mean, it's always a pleasure chopping it up with you. I I definitely consider you as providing a voice and leading equity. Why don't you take us home with your final word of advice to our listeners?

Adán [00:22:43]:

Yeah. I think you you touched on it just right before you, you know, handed it back to me. I think it just requires us to be open minded, being curious. Right. Having a willingness to teach others but be taught at the same time.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:56]:

Yep. Yep. Teach others and be taught at the same time. If we have some folks that wanna reach out to you, what's the best way to connect with you online?

Adán [00:23:04]:

I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So if you just look up my name, Adan de la Paz, that's where I'm at. And, yeah, I'm willing to connect with anybody that's interested to, to keep this dialogue going.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:15]:

Remind us as far as, like, what kind of needs do you, predominantly serve when it comes to support in DI area?

Adán [00:23:21]:

Obviously, my background is in education, so I've worked with, you know, public independent, private international schools, k through 12. But I've also worked in higher ed, so I'm working with, you know, inclusion departments as well as international schools. And I'm starting to venture out working with nonprofit, for profit, sort of in in outside of education as well. So anybody that's interested in looking at how they can look at, DEIs through this intercultural lens, kind of what we talked about today in in many regards, like, You know, hit me up, and we can have a conversation.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:53]:

Alright. And I'll leave links to Adan's LinkedIn on the show in the show notes as well. So, Adan, Again, it's truly a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Adán [00:24:02]:

Thank you so much,

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