Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their goals. Today's special guest is Shawna Wells. So without further ado, Shawna, thank you so much for joining us today.

Shawna Wells [00:00:16]:
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Well, the

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:18]:
pleasure's all mine. I'm excited for today's conversation. We're gonna be talking all about technology, where things were when we were Eakins, and where things are now for our current kids. And, but before we get into that, let's I would love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Shawna Wells [00:00:32]:
Yes. Sure. Well, so I'm a 70 sixers fan. I can't get rid of it. Sometimes that's good for me. Sometimes it's not. But I started there because it's the longest identity I think I've held in addition to black women. And I'm a mom.

Shawna Wells [00:00:45]:
I'm a friend. I'm a 20 year educator. I can't believe that because I still try to act like I'm 20 on some days. And I'm the CEO of a company called 7 Gen Legacy Group, which gives me the opportunity to talk with leaders across the country about their legacies, the legacies that they aim to live and leave, which is a major disruption to how we talk about our impact. We talk a lot about generational impact, what it looks like, what it feels like, and how you live it every day. And I'm the CEO of BS for Black Brilliance, which is a portion of my legacy.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:15]:
Alright. Well, first of all, shout out to AI, the question, the answer. That guy, I I I do remember those days. I was a big AI Allen Iverson fan, so I I give you some love. I'm a Rockets fan. K. Just throw it out there just just to be clear. I'm always gonna be a Rockets fan.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:33]:
However, however, I used to love Allen Iverson. So I think

Shawna Wells [00:01:37]:
I mean, practice. We're talking about practice.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:39]:
We're talking about practice?

Shawna Wells [00:01:41]:
No. No. Game. Not the game.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:44]:
You got jokes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Alright. So you said you mentioned b is for brilliance, and I would love for you to share with our our audience. Tell us what that is.

Shawna Wells [00:01:54]:
Yes. So b BS For Life Brilliance is a company that works alongside caregivers. We consider caregivers everyone who cares for children. We're all caring for our children. They're all watching us. So that's everybody from aunties, uncles, parents, nephews, other kids, and teachers, principals, all of us have a responsibility to raise the next generation of black and brilliant humans. So what we do is we build out resources and tools to support caregivers as they center our conversation around black brilliance, and we do that because we believe the narrative has been contained over time. And if we can tell a new story about blackness in this country, then we can allow ourselves to break down the containers that keep us bound and show our brilliance.

Shawna Wells [00:02:35]:
We believe black brilliance is everywhere, and that story doesn't get told as often as it should. So that's our work.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:41]:
Is that is that the book behind it? I it's

Shawna Wells [00:02:44]:
I can get it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:44]:
I like how you set that up there.

Shawna Wells [00:02:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's always that there's sometimes it falls down, and I feel like it's my ancestors talking. They'll be like, no. That's not black or brilliant. You need to get get it together. So but, yeah, that's the book. It's talks about 26 black and brilliant individuals.

Shawna Wells [00:03:00]:
I often say, I love the T shirt you're wearing today. It's his disruptor. I often say our book is a tool for agitation. It's an opportunity for people to have the realization that perhaps they don't know as much about black stories and the intricacies of who we are and what we do and how we've come to be.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:18]:
Alright. Okay. So I, you know, I gotta show you some love now. You you can't be just talking about b is for brilliance, not talking about. So folks will leave links in the show notes so that you can get your copy as well. And, obviously, if you wanna reach out to Shawna, that information will be in the show notes as well. Now I I'm excited because we're talking about technology. And, you know, before we even hit record, you and I were kinda reminiscing on 56 k dial up and chat rooms.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:46]:
And I remember what was that? CompuServe was at what I was on for a while, and then it moved into AOL and and all these different things. But, like, chat rooms, for example, were considered, like, dangerous and all these predators and all these things. And over time, as the generations, as years have gone by, we have seen, you know, dial up is no longer a thing. We're seeing, like, Internet is has has changed. And to now, we're having a lot more conversations in regards to AI, you know, artificial intelligence. And you got chat gpt and all these different resources that our current students are got got their hands on all the time.

Shawna Wells [00:04:23]:
Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:23]:
And and for some of us, you know, we may not be as tech savvy. Some of us are just like, you know, again, we're thinking about it from where where we were and our views of technology. So I want to start the the conversation with you about what are some ways that we can connect, no pun intended, connect with our students when we're when we're talking about technology.

Shawna Wells [00:04:46]:
Yes. Yes. Well, I'm laughing too because AI and then AI, we talked about Allen Iverson. Yeah. Oh. Look at that look at that thread.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:53]:
Mhmm.

Shawna Wells [00:04:54]:
I think first and foremost is about seeing it as an opportunity to connect. So oftentimes, when I'm in rooms with adults, from principals to superintendents to teachers to to parents, they're at odds with technology. I gotta I gotta limit screen time, and I do think you need to limit screen time, but I'm I'm fearful of it or, it's the worst thing ever. And I will remind us that for generations, as innovations have come in, we have always been afraid of it. We've always pushed it away. You know, going to space, for example, like, there was a cohort of people that were like, we shouldn't do that, and here we are. And so and who knows if we should be in space or not? I don't know. But what I do know is that if we can help our kids see us as tools for conversation around how they're using technology in their everyday lives, then we have a better chance of making sure that we're deeply connecting with their humanity at a young age, and then they can make sense of it over time.

Shawna Wells [00:05:53]:
So the first and foremost is about seeing it as a connection tool as opposed to the enemy.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:58]:
So it's not the enemy?

Shawna Wells [00:06:00]:
It is I I will go on record and say, it is not the enemy. It could be something Okay. That that will I do think it's a separator. I think it's a divider for sure. Like, I I think you can look at all the stats on how it's creating economic divides, particularly for black and brown people. But also on the other side, I know for me, you know, I lived in my house when I was a kid. Now I can see the world through technology. I can go to the art museum that I wasn't able to go to.

Shawna Wells [00:06:27]:
I can see the possibilities using technology. So anything can become an enemy, like, anything. Cale can become an enemy if we wanted to. Right? And so how do we use it and strengthen it and have it be a tool for conversation and connection is the real question I think we can all ask ourselves.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:44]:
So can I ask you that question then? How can we utilize technology as a tool? Like, I'm I'm curious. As as an educator, I wanna know.

Shawna Wells [00:06:52]:
Yes. Absolutely. Well, I gotta go I gotta say, I don't It's it's funny that I'm talking about technology because our team would tell you, like, Shauna does not wanna Slack. She does not wanna be on a thing. Okay. And I think part of it is because I wanna be in relationship with others. Mhmm. And so we have this framework we use called Brilliant when we talk about AI and talk about technology and talk about fostering conversation as kids are experiencing it.

Shawna Wells [00:07:18]:
The reason we created the tool was because it was like, well, L, we've made this a monster. Let's make it simple. And so let me share with you what brilliant means. Mhmm. The first part is belonging. So how do we use technology as a tool for belonging, and what are questions we can ask our children to tell us about what belonging actually means? So let me give you an example of one of the questions we might ask. In in an online story and by story, we mean on Instagram, TikTok, whatever you just saw. Can you identify the characters that you seem connected to, that you would build community with? And can you identify the ones that you would not? And let's talk about that.

Shawna Wells [00:07:53]:
That just changes how people how kids experience technology. They're thinking critically about it. They're seeing all of these new faces. How can I engage with this differently? And how can I foster a sense of belonging both as a caregiver, someone talking talking to a child who's experiencing this, and a child thinking critically about what they're seeing in front of them? The second is representation, the are. So we get to talk about, okay. So am I seeing representation of everybody that I want to see or need to see? Do I have the full picture? And with the advent of technology or AI or search functions, we can actually get multiple perspectives. Now we can talk about whether or not the Internet has multiple perspectives on it. That's a whole another conversation, but we can certainly be more intentional about who we bring into the research that we do or the conversations that we have.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:38]:
So belonging and representation, I'm assuming there's there's a a a word for each letter. Is is that Yeah.

Shawna Wells [00:08:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. On track? You're on track. You're on track.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:48]:
Okay. So how do I remember all these things? Because brilliant is a long word. You know what I'm saying? So

Shawna Wells [00:08:53]:
Well, I know. I know. We're trying to be, like, trendy, you know, pithy. Here's what I would say is that, actually, it's about getting into the habit of asking a series of questions, and I'll share with folks what the all the whole acronym and the questions. But what I do is I'm like, I'm gonna just focus on belonging for the next 2 weeks. And I'm gonna just I'm actually just gonna ask my kids the in the belonging category 2 or 3 questions as they engage with technology to get me in the habit of doing it in the car line, in the 5 minutes I have as the kids are going to the bathroom in school or in the cafeteria when I'm working with them or alongside them in the classroom? Like, what what question could I form in a lesson plan or ask them this to help them really understand their relationship with technology and, frankly, mine. Because sometimes when I ask these questions, adults are like, I don't want anything to do with that. And we said earlier, I'm like, if you ain't right, then we can't.

Shawna Wells [00:09:47]:
The kids ain't right. Right? And so how can we journal about that or talk about that or engage in dialogue with one another?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:54]:
Okay. So I I'm curious. So help me form an an example in my head because I I hear what you're saying, and I I love that there's there's the acronym. There's questions associated with the acronym. So give me an example. Is it let's say I'm a history teacher, and do I provide maybe a YouTube video, have the students watch the video and then react or respond to it based off of Brilliant? Is that how this works?

Shawna Wells [00:10:20]:
Yeah. You could do that definitely. Right? Or, you know, we I was just at a board meeting with a with a few educators, and they said, I don't know. Like, I gave an assignment and kids just come back with, you know, something that's been generated by whatever GPT we're on.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:34]:
Oh, okay.

Shawna Wells [00:10:34]:
And so the question then says, okay, if you know that that's happening instead of being like you're in trouble, stop long enough to say, hey, how many how many voices are represented here? What do you agree with or disagree with? So that our kids can cut become accustomed to when they're not with us, when they're getting older to think critically about, do I really believe this, or am I just cutting and pasting and why?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:57]:
So is, okay. So going back, when you said AI technology is not the enemy, were you also kind of referencing chat gpt? Because, I mean, we're seeing a lot of schools that are banning it. We're seeing a lot of district centers, like, don't use it. We're seeing a lot of teachers that are frustrated because, like you said, they're generated. Responses, comments, and things like that are coming in. So is is that Eakins of where we were at initially when we're having that conversation about the enemy?

Shawna Wells [00:11:21]:
I think so. Yes. You know, it's interesting too because if you follow the trend and I don't know. Like, I'm kind of laughing. I'm like, if I follow the trend, like, I am not the tech person on our team. I will say it again. But I think part part of that is because I'm in I'm, like, in this with everybody. I'm like, wait.

Shawna Wells [00:11:38]:
Do I like this? Do I not like this? Here's the deal. The trend shows that GPTs are actually going to be bought by companies. We're watching this happen with Google Google Docs, for example, or with things that we use in our everyday, those of us who maybe use Canva to create something for our classrooms. The GPTs are being embedded in those things. It's not going anywhere. So we can ban whatever version is happening, but it's it's being infused into the population. Like, we can ban just like we could ban fidget spinners. It didn't matter.

Shawna Wells [00:12:08]:
At some point, it overwhelmed the school, and then it becomes a tool for kids, like, being able to channel their energy. Mhmm. CBT is here. So now we have to figure out how we're gonna help kids understand it, use it, interrogate it, and we gotta do the same thing.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:22]:
Okay. So what I'm Eakins, and correct me if I'm wrong because this is what I think I'm hearing, but essentially

Shawna Wells [00:12:27]:
No. No. No. Tell me. Let's talk about it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:28]:
I don't wanna feel worse in your mind. I just wanna make sure that what I heard and what I'm interpreting is essentially, it's not going anywhere. You are going to get responses from auto generated type of technology when it comes to your work. The way that we can combat it or maybe not combat it, but more of harness that technology is by kind of going through that brilliant structure or some sort of questioning. Okay. What would be your what is your response? What do you agree with when it comes to this generated responses? Is this where you're at? And are those some of the things that we can help our students, you know, work with?

Shawna Wells [00:13:05]:
Yes. I think we can start to build it in. We we have and we have to embrace that it's here. Like, I just I get to, read these applications for black girls who are applying to scholarships for college. And as I read these applications, like, it is clear that ChatGPT has been maybe a tool that you have used because they all look pretty similar to the set of questions I started asking myself around. Like, okay. So if they're using it, and if 18 the 18 girls and women that I read I'm reading these essays from are all using it, how am I gonna help them understand what they're doing, what they're using, what perspectives are being built, and then use it to formulate their own thoughts, their own connection with other people, and the opportunity that they have to use this as a resource. And for me to embrace that and open the door for conversation instead of shutting the door opening it to use it as a teaching tool.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:59]:
So I know a lot of people will tell me, you know, or teachers will say, you know, one of the things that we do to encourage our students is utilize if you're gonna utilize chat gpt, use utilize it as a starting point. So this is not copy and paste necessarily, but at least gives you some ideas and then kinda you can utilize that to kinda write in your own words. You know, there's enough prompts that we can put into chat, for example, that can kinda give us something enough to a shell, if you will, and then or template, and then we can go from there. Is that something that you would encourage? Or because I'm I'm thinking about like you said, like, if I'm reading a scholarship and it's an academic scholarship and I see clearly this is this is clearly, clearly some chat stuff. Is that going to, you know subjectively, am I gonna feel like, oh, no. This person does not deserve this this scholarship. So so, I mean, what what are your thoughts there?

Shawna Wells [00:14:55]:
Yes. Well, let's be real about college essays from people of privilege have been, like, written and informed by other people for a very long time. And so, like, this ain't new. I think part of what we gotta get really disciplined about is how are we teaching our kids to ask the questions of us human to human, And then how does that inform how they ask questions to Chat GPT? And someone I was talking to the other day, they're like, so you're saying Chat GPT could be a thought partner. And I'm like, it could be a helpful thought partner to have in a bedroom at midnight when you're trying to figure out where can I find this information? Well, why not teach our kids then? Okay. 1, it is biased because it's pulling from bias information on the Internet. The Internet is a biased place. Okay.

Shawna Wells [00:15:44]:
So if you ask it a question, it's gonna give you one type of answer. Do you agree with it? Yes or no? If you agree with it, what can you use or utilize, and how can you be in conversation conversation with that information and with other humans to then evolve an opinion over time? And if we can look at it that way, then we can teach our kids to center their own brilliance, to be able to talk with themselves about what do I truly believe. But right now, we're cutting that off at the past because we're saying, I don't wanna engage with it. Chat rooms were a scary place, and we're treating chat GPT as if it's a evolved search engine, and it's definitely not that. So how do we help our kids relate to us and relate to this technology?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:23]:
I always figured, like, the irony of it all is a lot of us utilize chat gbt for lesson planning activities. But then we don't want the the students. We don't want the students to send us the the chat. Wait. Wait. Wait. You literally put this lesson plan together.

Shawna Wells [00:16:37]:
This is.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:39]:
This this wasn't you. I know you. You know what I'm saying? Mister Wilson, I know this is not how you get down with these lesson plans. Now all of a sudden all of a sudden your lesson plans are on point at this level, but then you don't want me to send you my feedback or assessment information via this you don't want me to utilize the same tools. Like, no. This is for me. This as a teacher, this is for me only, but students, no. You can't utilize it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:02]:
So I think we do need to be fair in a lot of conversations when it comes to how we utilize chat gbt.

Shawna Wells [00:17:08]:
Yes. Well and and you bring up a great point here around it. The fact pattern that we had no longer exists. Right? It's not it is all it's it's changed. And so if we take and apply, like, okay. We're gonna use this for our lesson plans, but we don't allow our kids to have conversations around it. We are literally limiting connection with them, and that's what we're all saying. Like, the kids don't get us.

Shawna Wells [00:17:29]:
Well, they don't get us because we haven't taken the time to connect generationally, and that's part of our responsibility as shepherds for the generation to come. We have to figure out how to generationally connect so that they can use what they have as a set of tools to evolve humanity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:47]:
I'm with you. Alright. So let's go back to the brilliant structure because we've only touched on belonging and representation. I didn't teach English, but I wanna say there's, like, another 20 letter.

Shawna Wells [00:17:58]:
20. Come on.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:04]:
At least 20 more letters left. So I I wanna make sure I wanna we only have so much time. So I wanna make sure that you no. Seriously. But I I because I think this conversation that we're having makes a lot of sense for us to kinda set it up because I know there's gonna be folks listening to this. It's like, okay. I agree with what Shawna is saying. I agree with what Sheldon is saying.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:22]:
I wanna utilize Brilliant. And, obviously, we'll leave links in the show notes so they can get in touch with you directly. But just for the sake of this conversation, I would like to complete the the letters there. So run me down the I the rest of it and Eakins give us a little synopsis of how each one kinda relates to each other.

Shauna Wells [00:18:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's do this. So I'm gonna quickly go through and give a question because I think these questions can help spark other questions. I'm not the holder of all the knowledge, just a way of thinking. So identity. Ask kids, can you recall a story where a character, growth has the evolution has resonated with you? And by character, what we mean is, like, somebody on TikTok, somebody on Instagram.

Shawna Wells [00:19:00]:
Like, we have to get into deep analysis about who we are becoming. Legacy. As you engage, how does the the game, the app, the technology, how does it honor the contributions of people in the world that have come before you and may come after you? Learning is l. So this we're not on letter 20, but we're on we do r I l l. So we're on learning. What's the most fascinating thing that you've learned from Chat GPT, from Instagram, from Facebook Eakins? I know Facebook is, like, a thing in the past, but can I say that? So what is the thing that you've learned? Inquiry. When you encounter a differing opinion, and this one is especially important. So if you're gonna start somewhere, start with inquiry.

Shawna Wells [00:19:45]:
When you encounter a differing a differing opinion on digital content, what do you do? What questions would you like me to ask? What would you like to ask me about it? What do you think I think about it? Like those types of dialogues are important. And I think in a school setting are really hard these days, because honoring the work of teachers, they have not a lot of time. Yeah. Agency, how might you redesign ChatChipt to encounter more of your brilliance, to encounter more diverse voices? And you can I'm putting Chatche BTM, but you can put whatever technology you're talking about. And for narratives, have you ever disagreed with a choice someone made on one of our technologies? How would you approach approach the conversation differently? This this is a way of teaching kids to have an opinion about what they're saying as opposed to just doing what they're saying. And I have a 6 year old at home. She copies everything I do. And I'm like, okay.

Shawna Wells [00:20:33]:
But was that for you? Was that for me?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:35]:
Right.

Shawna Wells [00:20:35]:
And then finally t for talk. And I say this because I think we forget it. We're forgetting to talk to each other. So what is your reaction to something that somebody said and how might you talk to them? And this is important because we can talk to people across the world now. DM them about something that is important. DM them about a philosophical thing that you're really thinking about. Or how can I learn more information about you balancing an egg on your head? Like, what are the ways in which we can teach kids to use the technologies that they have to create more possibilities so that they can build out what they believe should be possible in a world that needs them truly. So where we going? We made it.

Shawna Wells [00:21:13]:
Twenty letters.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:14]:
We made it. See? See? And we had time left over. I I'm curious. Can we get because you you you kinda answered it because, you know, when you said talk, that was my first question was, like, are we talking through devices, or were we talking 1 on 1 physical like, how how how does that look? I get does it depend? I'm just curious.

Shawna Wells [00:21:34]:
No. I see you. So this is like this is us. This is when we say talk, what we mean is dial up that phone number and call. And if I ask my dad what talk means, he's, like, dial up that party line, you know, and call people and and or see people in person. And I think part of what we saw when people when, you know, people went remote, they were like, no. We need to be a person. I'm like, maybe.

Shawna Wells [00:21:57]:
But do you? Like, could you entertain the idea that it is possible to connect in different ways now? And for our kids, for the generation coming, this is a generation that has had more pictures taken of themselves than any other generation. It's a generation that can get in contact at high speeds with people more than like, remember voice mails? Voice mails anymore. Right? And so conversation has changed, and ignoring that conversation has changed angle and workforce, embracing that there are more ways to have conversation, ask questions, notice people's facial how people are responding facially, Teaching those things and really coming into contact with that, I think, is where we need to go.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:35]:
Got you. Got you. I agree. I'm with you. I got I think I missed a letter because I I got belonging representation. What was that I that first I?

Shawna Wells [00:22:45]:
Identity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:46]:
Identity. Legacy, learning, inquiry, agency, narratives, and talk. Okay. Okay. I I I I I don't know why. For some reason, I I I missed that that first eye. So Okay. Okay.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:01]:
So this is really very informative. So, basically, what I'm gathering is, as educators, we should not be afraid of technology and where things are going, especially from the chat gpt side of things, but we need to embrace it. But we can utilize a framework such as Brilliant to support the work that's happening within our classrooms. Is would this be something that we could utilize for maybe a a a test or exams, or is it maybe you recommend it from maybe just a homework assignment? I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah.

Shawna Wells [00:23:35]:
I think you could use it 3 ways. 1st is when you are lesson planning to ask yourself about your own relationship with the technology. Right? Like, you've gotta figure out what is your relationship and what's the conversation you're comfortable having. The second is we all want to when I got into teaching, I dreamed of my classroom being a place of dialogue, disagreement, conversation, and I wasn't always good at it. But on the days I was good at it, I was asking questions like these. I was asked, but they were about books. But I was asking questions about, do you agree or disagree with the character? Do you want to have a dialogue with me about what I think about this? Generationally, how does it show up for me? These types of questions can be used to foster dialogue in your classroom. I've used these questions with my child.

Shawna Wells [00:24:18]:
And then the third thing is what you what you names. I would say not just tests, but assessments, ways of seeing how kids are thinking and really pulling in multiple vantage points for them to be able to assess what do I actually think, what's my opinion. And I think sometimes we don't trust our kids with the information that they can pull together. Like, they're brilliant. And so and they're making sense of the world with or without us.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:43]:
Got you. So okay. I I'm gonna throw this one out here because I wanna get your take. I wanna get your take. So let's just say because I know there was a lot I mean, I remember reading articles all day. Every day, it seems like this school or this district has banned it. Do you support advocating for bringing it back or or or maybe if bringing it back or just keeping it? Because some schools are on the you know, they're having the conversations, and they're not really sure where to go. Where where's your stance? Because it sounds like you're all for it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:13]:
But do do you think if it's been banned already, you think we should try to have a re revisit that conversation?

Shawna Wells [00:25:20]:
Spicy. Alright. I am all about allowing our kids to have as much information as possible

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:26]:
Mhmm. To

Shawna Wells [00:25:27]:
expose them to the possibilities of the world. I don't believe in banning books. I don't believe in banning our kids from opportunities to see themselves in the world. What I do think we need to do if we bring it back is be ready for it. Why did you ban it in the first place? What were you frustrated by? And how can we actually create systems to have conversations with kids about here's why you don't copy other people's work? Because that's the real root. That's the issue that we're trying to solve. And instead of shutting the door on it I don't know. When my parents told me I couldn't do something, I was like, great.

Shawna Wells [00:25:58]:
I will be sneaking out of this window at midnight. Banning isn't helping anybody. It's here. How do we make sure that we take the responsibility of the generation of leaders that we are to pass in the next generation of here's how you make a sound call in your life. So, I am about making sure our kids get exposure to as many possibilities as we can give them so that they can choice make. And a lot of people will say our kids can't choice make, and I would say they absolutely can. Like, I'm I am I never underestimate the power of a good child brain.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:31]:
Mhmm. I I wonder if we'll get to a place where APA and MLA will be cite chatgpt. Like, that will be part of what you because I'm I'm thinking even at the higher ed level or just doing a a research paper. And I utilize chatgpt, and I can cite you know, I got this paragraph or I got this quote from chatgpt, and if that's gonna be a conversation down the road. I wonder if it'll be a thing. I'm for it. This is as long as you cite your sources. I'm all about that life.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:03]:
So we'll we'll see.

Shawna Wells [00:27:04]:
We'll see. We will see. I mean, I thought when people said technology will one day take people's jobs, I picture industry robots. Yeah. I think what's happening is it's pushing us all to think about our humanity. What does it mean to be a human in this world and does not to design systems that are connected to our humanity. Who who are we as humans? Right? Like, I think there's all sorts of questions that are surfacing now as we look at the capability of so chat g p t. And they are like, I made my own g p t yesterday to talk like me, to be like, just to see.

Shawna Wells [00:27:38]:
I was like, what can I do? And I was like, this is pretty dang close.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:41]:
Yeah.

Shauna Wells [00:27:41]:
So like you? Yeah. I was like, it said y'all. I was like, what? It's scary.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:48]:
That's scary. I remember people were making Drake Vert rap versus

Shawna Wells [00:27:52]:
I'm gonna try that actually. And what's we you could do, like, a mind mode. You can be, like, make it sound like me and Drake.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:58]:
Yeah? Wow. This is yeah. Like you said, it's here to stay. It's not going anywhere, but there's ways that we can support it in a, I guess, a a I don't wanna say control, but, like, I guess, more of a structured setting. So based off what kinda your framework and things like that. So I'll say to Shawna, I've definitely learned a lot from this conversation, and I'd love for you to share maybe a final thought final word of advice to our listeners out there.

Shawna Wells [00:28:23]:
Yes. Thank you, and thanks for having me. It's been it's been fun to to think about this. I don't have all the answers is the first thing I'll Sheldon. And I think we are human. And when we are humans at our best, we really think about how we can connect with one another, and technology is not walking alongside us in that. And if we can view it like that, we can use it as a tool instead of see it as an enemy. So take a risk, ask a question, and instead of telling kids it's not good, pick it up.

Shawna Wells [00:28:52]:
Like, rock and roll music used to be like, nope. Rap music used to be like, nope.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:56]:
This is

Shawna Wells [00:28:57]:
just one more thing that's coming on the scene that we need to be able to talk with our kids about. And if we take a risk on that, we may just find a connection where we didn't know we had one. So here we go.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:07]:
Yep. So if we have some folks that wanna connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Shawna Wells [00:29:12]:
Yes. So you can find us on our website, b is for black brilliance.com, and on Instagram atbsforblackbrilliance. You can DM me. I'll do my best to reply. You can find me on LinkedIn for our work, our executive coaching work at 7 Gen and at Shawna Wells. Alright.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:26]:
Well, folks, we'll leave all the links in the show notes. So thank you again, Shawna. It has truly been a pleasure. I appreciate your time.

Shawna Wells [00:29:32]:
Oh, thank you for having me. It's been fun.

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