Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is mister Rob Harvey. So without further ado, Rob, thank you so much for joining us today.

Rob Harvey [00:00:19]:
Thank you for having me. Been looking forward to the conversation.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:21]:
Yeah. Pleasure as always, Maayan. I appreciate your time as well. I'm really looking forward to learning about our topic. But before we get into it, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Rob Harvey [00:00:31]:
I am a 20 year retired music business or music industry executive now in education technology. And that was inspired by we have 68 year old daughters, but when I left the music business in 2016, I knew that whatever I was gonna do beyond that, I wanted to be Eakins education. And I am now the executive chairman and cofounder of For the Win Robotics, otherwise known as FTW. And we are an education technology company that focuses on drone technology as an amazing learning tool for k through higher ed.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:07]:
Great. Well, I'm excited because for the win. And then tell me a little bit more about that. So you said it's STROMES Technology. What's the ultimate goal behind the program?

Rob Harvey [00:01:17]:
That's a great question. The ultimate goal is strictly to awaken interest in students. Drone technology was is our hack to grab the attention because what student doesn't want to participate in some kind of drone learning. Right? But That's fair.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:34]:
That's fair.

Rob Harvey [00:01:35]:
The original founder of the company we've been around a long time. And, in 2018, the original founder, Daniel Meehay, he's still here. He's our chief operations officer. He, like we do in the music business, found something which was magical. And that was years ago, our company bringing not our drone, but another drone, an education drone into a classroom with an obstacle course or in some kind of curriculum. And the students like, we didn't realize it. We we thought we were right, but, like, drone technology as a learning platform is something we knew we needed to really run down. Very similar to the music industry.

Rob Harvey [00:02:17]:
This is what was happening in this little subsection of education that back in 2018, we were involved in. But, like, everyone likes something, but, like, when there's a, like, a significant return on the work or music or whatever, that's culture. That's something that, in our case and in the music industry case, you need to run down. And here we are 7 years later, just about, and we now have a platform called BuildFlight Code where it is simply in classroom, experiential, engineering, pilot flying, piloting, the science of flight, everything they need to understand a drone. Meaning, what are the props, L, what are the propeller guards, what's the PCB, all of these things. So they essentially build this drone. They learn flight safety and piloting skills, and then they move into code, which is what is code? It's an algorithm. It's a recipe all the way up to the point where rudimentary basic beginners who who have gone through the billfly code kind of phase 1 may now have a novice working relationship with the tool, the drone, that they are now going to be asked to solve problems using.

Rob Harvey [00:03:37]:
And we'll get into soft skills and everything later on, but not only is there agency around the technology for the students, they know how to build, they know how to pilot it and safety and coding. And then the last thing we actually teach in our professional development side is disassemble. So, basically, Sheldon, if you were out there with your students, you know, years ago or whatever when you were teaching, it would be simply their job to manage this tool while you are hitting them with a a large number and growing number of career technical education kind of pathways, search and rescue precision delivery, but but giving these students challenges and problems to solve using all of these components. You know? And, DROME was the hack, but it now has become ubiquitous in some in one state in particular, and it's simply based on its efficacy. You can't take these kids' hands. You can't okay. Event's over. Class is over.

Rob Harvey [00:04:37]:
They're so excited, and it's not individualized. It's shared. So that's what we're all about, and that's what the product is.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:45]:
I like it. That's that's good. And kudos to you and your organization for the things that you're doing. Of course, folks, there's going to be links in the show notes so that you can learn more about for the win. But I I'm I'm just glad to hear everything that you're doing. Let's let's get into today's topic. We're talking about soft skills, and we're gonna relate soft skills to STEM. But before we we break down how they coexist, if you will, I wanna start with what is your definition of soft skills so that way we have a bit of a baseline to follow.

Rob Harvey [00:05:13]:
At the highest level, it's experience. So what I mean by that is when I was at Spotify as an example, we were in a significant hiring phase or growth phase in the team size department. And so many candidates were extraordinary in terms of their, education and potentially some organization, but really the education piece, MIT, this, that. And what I noticed, what was really kind of, wouldn't say disheartening, but, like, awakening was they haven't done anything yet. Pressure makes pipes break. So, like, what happens when when we're under pressure? You gotta remain calm. That's these are skills. What happens when you're asked to solve a problem that you don't know how to solve? It's called collective intelligence.

Rob Harvey [00:05:59]:
It's called using collaborative kind of thinking as it relates to bringing people in, Bringing those that are in your organization in no matter the level to have dialogue because you never know where the idea is gonna come from. And outside the box thinking is not is a soft skill. And it's something that, call it ideation, you know, you think Eakins. All those areas are not taught in school, generally speaking. And, that was one of the honestly, that was one of the motivations when when I left the music side. And here I am walking into different school options for our children's Eakins kindergarten class. And I'm looking around, and I'm saying to myself, this looks exactly like it did when I went to school. You might see some couple extra things here and there.

Rob Harvey [00:06:43]:
I'm not, like, criticizing anything. Anyone who's trying to educate, you have our double thumbs up. But at the same time, not only is it the same old way, generally speaking, but, like, still missing those elements that employers or I'm speaking as an employer before at spa I mean, at Spotify. Like, we we need it. Like, it's needed. So that's my definition of soft skills. I hope that helps.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:06]:
No. No. That's good. That's good. And and I've list as I'm listening, I'm I'm curious because you said something that I I my brain started going because Yeah. You mentioned something like we didn't learn these or we're we're not teaching these skills in school. And my thoughts with that is, well, I know in the social emotional learning capacity, like schools that implement those type of you know, as part of so SEL. Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:31]:
Self management, self regulation, working with others. So those kind of things are all part of it. We may not specifically say, okay, folks. This is your learn how to regulate your emotions, time. However, I think I would argue that a lot of schools are. If they are so SEL focused, they would be teaching these skills. It just may not be as defined as kinda how you're mentioning.

Rob Harvey [00:07:56]:
Yeah. I mean, I like, I was I I think I said it twice, generally speaking. Right? Like, it's not so there's social studies, math,

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:03]:
like Right.

Rob Harvey [00:08:03]:
Reading, comprehend, like Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:05]:
We have more emphasis on academics.

Rob Harvey [00:08:08]:
Yeah. And I didn't even mention us. Like, I guess I'm mentioning us. But, like, we are focused as educators professionally developing and on those areas. So there's definitely it's I mean, let's be clear. Like, it's not even just about soft skills that are important. But if you read authors like Adam Grant as an example, he has a book out there that really talks about we're teaching wrong. Meaning we're not providing for learners scientifically backed methods, current that ensure things stick.

Rob Harvey [00:08:39]:
So it's like in Adam Grant's book, he has a book out, recent one, I think it's called Sheldon potential. There's a much more relevant subtitle that I can't think of right now, but it's all about practice versus play. Like, we play with our work, but it's serious. It's more serious than most. But it's not a and, yeah, we hack with, like, a drone, but these are hands on expert this is, like, real world stuff happening. And I just think that we just think that the more we lean into that one area in what we do, and we do other areas too, but, like, the more we lean into that, the more confidence, more agency, more social emotional emotional L, all of these things kind of, you know, have a much better result. But I'm with you. There that's why we're on this podcast.

Rob Harvey [00:09:23]:
Speak 1 speaking to the other in in this case about how to heighten the importance of it, how to elevate this conversation.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:31]:
Yeah. At the end of the day, it it requires intentional efforts.

Rob Harvey [00:09:34]:
That's right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:35]:
And if we're just focused on academics, help the kids pass tests and and exams and states, whatever, then, yeah, then we miss the human side of our our of our kids.

Rob Harvey [00:09:45]:
So

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:45]:
yeah. That makes sense. So let's do this. A lot of times with STEM, science, technology, engineering, mathematics, we can even add art in there as L, Steam. Right? Yeah. Within that, there's there's there's coding. There there's a lot of logic. So if this, then that, conditional.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:01]:
Like, there's all these different formulas, equations. So one could argue that, oh, you don't need these soft skills because it's very 1 +1 equals 2 type of methodology within these these this field. How do you respond to someone that that says soft skills aren't necessarily needed in the STEM fields?

Rob Harvey [00:10:21]:
I would agree and I would disagree. Okay. So I know that's kinda like I I should be like speak I should speak one way on one answer and then this way and

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:29]:
the other, the two sides of my face. No. Tell me more.

Rob Harvey [00:10:31]:
Tell me. Let me let me let me explain.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:33]:
Okay.

Rob Harvey [00:10:34]:
So, yeah, there are definitely some STEM education or STEM focused professional careers that one can get away with their coworkers, not requiring and there these are not even necessarily, like, joint fitter type of jobs. They or it's more labor only putting things together. It's programming as an example. So there are definitely areas that can continue in STEM to be not the beneficiary not benefiting from the social emotional soft skill stuff. But I will tell you this, and this might be a conversation starter or a mic drop, but I could tell you pretty much nothing that I learned in school allowed for me to help the team build this company, full stop. Because it it doesn't it's not about 1 +1 equals 2. A company is valued by the number of problems it can solve, and that's not 1 +1equals2. That's, oh my goodness, there is a supply chain problem.

Rob Harvey [00:11:38]:
So there's always I mean, we haven't had this there. It we still don't teach on the higher average side this type of skill, but and we've survived this far, and we've and we've prospered. But I would just argue that it's time to take it very much more seriously because of what it will enable as as us and humanity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:59]:
You know, and the piece that I like to mention, like, when folks try to make that claim because I agree with what you're saying. Like, there's certain certain jobs where, you know, someone just they just read that all day, and they don't necessarily have to I mean, they can print out reports, and that's they don't have to interact a lot. I always mention might be their professional setting, but how do we wanna make sure that our staff professionals have personal relationships, their daily lives, their daily experiences because how their mood is, how their their relationships, L they have a bad morning because they got into an argument with someone might impact their work ethic. It might impact their their their their ability to effectively work because they have stuff on their mind. And so not being able to regulate those emotions or not being able to work with their partner, their kids, whatever. Those type of things also play a factor. But, again, we don't always think about the human side of focus. What is the task that this individual needs to do, and how do we make sure that it gets done and not consider, well, what are what type of emotions are they bringing to this this today,

Rob Harvey [00:13:02]:
or this got you? It's funny you mentioned that. And I would actually put that irresponsibility, if there is some irresponsibility going on, on the employers L. Because culture, culture, culture is such an in in vogue Eakins of term these days, but, like, let me just talk about our company culture. It doesn't I mean, we're not a large we're gonna become a bigger company. But every single person at our company first of all, it's all about transparency. We say right out of the gate, no matter how where you are in the org, you have a seat at the table. Because if I'm the executive that that makes the file that has the responsibility, it's not like I'm like, yay. I'm the boss.

Rob Harvey [00:13:38]:
I don't think that. I'm like, get the team around that can help me help us all. So and it again, it doesn't like, you don't know where the the ideas are gonna come from. And if you're having a bad day, know that you can call any one of us, and we get it. Stay do what you have to do because we know that we're motivating you enough to the job performance is not the issue. We're not worried about that. We're worried about your well-being, your mental and physical L. So I call that the responsibility of the employer.

Rob Harvey [00:14:10]:
And, you know, listen. If the educators can knock that out of the park and give us a 100% on the funnel coming to us, wonderful. But it doesn't work that way. It just doesn't. And unfortunately, there are management teams out there that or companies that don't care enough or know to care enough.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:25]:
Yep. Yep. Okay. So I think you and I Either

Rob Harvey [00:14:27]:
way, it works because the productivity I I call myself the chief motivator at the company. I'm like, I want you guys to run through the wall and run this company. I don't need this is about I wanna just tell tell the world how great this work is,

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:38]:
but, like, so far, the proof's there. There you go. Well, I think you and I are both on the same page when it comes to the necessity of of soft skills within your STEM fields. And again, like I said, it's not just a professional side, but it's also Yeah. On the personal side to me. So how does working with drones, learning how to code, those type of things, how does that develop one's soft skills?

Rob Harvey [00:15:01]:
So primarily, right, number 1, a drone in the workforce is not generally speaking a 1 person at a time type of responsibility. Eakins, you might have one pilot, right, flying the drone, but is that pilot the same individual that's actually mechanically tinkering and upgrading and fixing that drone? Likely not. Is it the ground control computer technician? Probably not. Is it the VLOS, a visual line of sight, a human eye player in that group? No. So my first answer is to just Eakins point to a setting of Bill Flycode in the classroom or a Bill Flycode live event where we invite, you know, already knowledgeable students and their educators to a live experiential event where they have to in their group, they have to solve a problem. Precision delivery. How do we do this to this with Hopper? And right away, you have 3 or 4 students on 1 drone, and they instantly know what they want. I'm gonna be the programmer.

Rob Harvey [00:16:05]:
I'm gonna be the mechanic. So it's already collaborative in terms of the, you know, the using of the instrument and and and its, effectiveness. But like all other types of art and creation, there's not just one set of code that will solve that problem, but there's a better set and maybe even a better set. So right away, your group is your group. Like, you can't do this without each without each other. And witnessing that for from our perspective in the educate I mean, it's just a wonderful thing to see because they're looking to each other because there's vulnerability. There's someone comes with a lot of knowledge. Maybe they play video games.

Rob Harvey [00:16:42]:
I don't know. Right? But, so right out of the gate, when you're working with drones in the classroom as a learning tool and in the professional side, it's not just about you. It's others. And what is it that the collaboration or this collective intelligence is working on? Solving problems. Like, pressure makes pipes break. Let's put a clock on that. Let's make it harder. So it's really collaboration because it's required because there's a lot of L, but then you need each other, collective L, and then you have these problems that are varied through different industries, you know, cinema cinematography, precision delivery, and each one can come with a different set of experiences and intelligence and learnings that can benefit the group.

Rob Harvey [00:17:27]:
It's really how it goes.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:28]:
So it starts with the teamwork because like you said, even though it's a drone is a single they call it a what's it? UAV? What is it? UV?

Rob Harvey [00:17:36]:
UAV. Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:37]:
UAV. Yeah. So an unmanned

Rob Harvey [00:17:40]:
Autonomous vehicle. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I was

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:42]:
trying to I was trying to trying to flex like I knew.

Rob Harvey [00:17:45]:
We can edit that one out.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:49]:
I was trying to pretend like I knew. I was talking. Okay. Yes. So you I did my prep.

Rob Harvey [00:17:55]:
I'm just breaking your down.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:56]:
That was good. That was good. So okay. So the teamwork. So even though it's one UAV, but there there's multiple players that that effectively L the mission, if you will

Rob Harvey [00:18:07]:
That's right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:08]:
Take place. And so there's gonna require problem solving. There's gonna require teamwork. And so when we think about when a student finishes school, let's call it high school, and they decide what they're gonna do going forward, whether they wanna enter into workforce, do they wanna go to college, those kind of things, they have some sort of foundational skills that they've learned.

Rob Harvey [00:18:26]:
It's exactly right. And, you know, it's funny. Those that aren't given that that that opportunity sorry, opportunity in their classrooms, what that student's doing when it's their own problem after school, they get on the phone. They're calling people. They're getting other perspective. They're using their emotional intelligence and collective intelligence to make sure it's like not don't go to the library and start reading books. I mean, read books. Don't get me wrong.

Rob Harvey [00:18:51]:
But, like, where are you getting information? Humans, right, with experience that can give other perspectives. So, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:00]:
So I've been doing a lot of research on dominant behaviors versus non dominant behavior. So dominant from a individualistic approach of your traditional, here's a worksheet, work on a worksheet quietly at your desk Yeah. Versus someone from a collective or communal background might prefer working in teams, or they they might come from a, we just all pitch in together and get the job done. So traditional classrooms often lean heavier towards the individual work. Maybe there's some competition. Maybe there's, again, here's do this on your own. Work silently. Work quietly.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:37]:
So what I'm hearing is this for example, the drone technology and working with students in coding, this is kind of like those are gifts with traditional forms of teaching and experiences we tend to see.

Rob Harvey [00:19:49]:
What's funny is we get a lot of calls from, like, significant drone. Like, our drone is an education drone. K? It has a lot of firepower. Maybe the wrong choice of words there has a lot of power behind it in terms of sensors and whatnot. There's no firepower.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:03]:
There's no firepower.

Rob Harvey [00:20:03]:
In the other way. No. But what I mean is, like, there is absolutely a need, a requirement, a time for individualized upskilling. Like, not all if it's for individuals, the mechanic, the the coder, they're not all going to achieve the same things in life because they're different people. They have different interests, different capabilities, different brains, of course. But so in learning, in education setting, absolutely. Have people around you, especially at the younger grades, maybe K through 12 Eakins of. Maybe in the higher ed, you could kind of give more individualized I mean, Hopper, our drone can go very, very, very deep into multiple languages and all that, but it's really we're k through 12, so there's a basics level as well.

Rob Harvey [00:20:51]:
If you are teaching this social, emotional, and community, and collaborate if you're teaching that, it's automatic. And then there can become and should become time, or throughout this time as well, individual excellence of study and experience and learning in one or several particular areas, that when you join back a group, you have even more to add to this collective intelligence. If someone who goes through BillFly code throughout their education and becomes a drone pilot, that's wonderful. But for us, it is nothing to do with that. It's all about just Eakins interest in all of these areas. And you'd absolutely want I mean, who didn't? I did run down specific areas of excellence or attempt to run down specific areas of excellence to make myself more valuable in those situations.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Well, let's let's open this up on a more broader scheme. So for those in general, what tips could you give? And it doesn't necessarily have to be STEM related folks.

Rob Harvey [00:21:49]:
Sure.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:50]:
But just in general, when it comes to group work, let's just call it group work. So there's there's a project. What tips could you give out to individuals who are looking to provide more of collaborative activities? What are some things maybe they should be aware of, look out for, consider maybe, and then as the project or activity is going along that they should be maybe checking in on? What what kind of strategies could you give in these settings?

Rob Harvey [00:22:14]:
It's said a lot. It was actually said in a recent podcast. One of your guests with you, it was a you guys Eakins of branched off on a conversation about failure. And, like, number 1, fail, but fail fast and learn. Stop, start, and continue. Those kinds of things that are important. I would say right out of the gate, just be okay with it not working because you just figured out a way it doesn't work. That's one one less you have to figure out that doesn't work.

Rob Harvey [00:22:39]:
But second to that, I would say, listen, there should, that should be a major, right? Or that should be a subject in school. Listen, you cannot be a learner if you do not listen. And like put your judgment aside, put your bias aside. And I'm not saying listen to the other side of an argument. I'm not saying that. I mean, I'm saying that too. But what I mean is like in our company, I will speak by giving an example. We, I always am the one for the the younger people in the company, like, what about you? What are you thinking? Like, I don't say it.

Rob Harvey [00:23:12]:
If it's bad, we will laugh at you because I've been laughed at when I had a bad idea. But we love you, and we're not really laughing at you. But talk because you have a you're 20 years younger than me. So listen. Do that and listen because that's learning. Even if you learn something about someone's ideas that you don't necessarily agree with, give yourself a chance. Give it a chance. You're 50% of the chance 50% of the time, you're probably wrong by dismissing them.

Rob Harvey [00:23:37]:
You're probably missing it. And so you'll eventually get to the point in your life where you're old enough to know you're embarrassed by doing something like that. I think it's just and and transparency, leave the ego out the door and be humble. I don't who cares how great you are? What's gonna be great that we measure your greatness by is what you do in this setting. I would say also, read, what is that? I can't remember the name of the book. It's a really great book on emotional L. Where it's like that moment, when you just wanna, like, either overtalk someone's idea, or you wanna just jump in literally huddle them out, like and think about it for a second. Let it breathe.

Rob Harvey [00:24:17]:
Take the emotion out of your anger that that person says something really smart and you're gonna want it like that. It's not that. I think it's really setting the table for humble humility, kindness for people to end. Because that's that's gonna get you to have the most inputs into this collaboration, if you will.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:35]:
Don't be afraid to fail. Transparency. Listen. I mean, I think all of those are some great tools to do. If I'm a teacher, project leader, whatever it is, and I am facilitating these activities, this group work, and allowing the kids to learn from students. This is a project, however, how do I learn while I have to listen? I think that right there was one of the mic drops, if you will, in today's conversation. I'll I'll say this, Rob. I thoroughly have enjoyed our conversation.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:04]:
I've learned a lot, especially when it comes to STEM and soft skills and just kinda learning about the things that you're doing as well on the professional side. And and, again, folks, we have links in the show notes that will be there. But, Rob, I'd love for you to take us home with your final words of advice.

Rob Harvey [00:25:18]:
The other area that I we get a little prickly about is this all students thing. And, yeah, I may Eakins vogue now to be focusing on real world problems in classrooms. But, like, you and I spoke to Shelton at the beginning before we hit record, it's really important that not only we lean in towards those areas we discussed earlier in this podcast, but some of these real world problems, classrooms, special needs, low income, there's a zillion different real world problems that educators and students and schools deal with. But I'm telling you by not only the experience I'm having or we're having at this company, like, we're we're we're charging hard into some of these as many of these special areas as we can. But it is as important to include those that may not be necessarily exactly like you, situationally, physically, mentally. But I can tell you firsthand experience with our team, some of those students are, like, they're gonna change the world, and we have to make sure they get that, these resources just like anybody else.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:31]:
There you go. If we got some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Rob Harvey [00:26:36]:
I'm I'm not in social media, but I do use LinkedIn really to find employees. But we also like to talk because there's a lot of great people on LinkedIn in our space. I'm on LinkedIn. The team's on LinkedIn. So we have the company has a LinkedIn, but for fun, I would say I would also recommend going on Instagram and finding ftw _hopper. Because our drone, Hopper, although Hopper hasn't posted yet, but this is gonna be the singular vehicle that Hopper, our drone, will be communicating to customers and clients, but the world. That'll be a really great one. It's also gonna focus on our work, show our work or the work.

Rob Harvey [00:27:13]:
So I would just recommend if you're an educator for sure, it would be something you'd wanna check out. But, yeah, hit us up anytime. You can find us on our website, ftwyphenrobotics.com or just call us. Honestly, we're we're we're we call ourselves as high touch as desired, and we wanna hear from you. We wanna talk to you even if it's just collaboration and not a penny of transaction. That's we're not a motivated by money company.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:34]:
Alright. Well, thank you. Again, Rob, it has truly been a pleasure. Appreciate your time.

Rob Harvey [00:27:39]:
Thank you so much,

Are you subscribed to the podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!

Now if you enjoy listening to the show, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other advocates find the podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!