Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest, Lana Penley. So without further ado, Lana, thank you so much for joining us today.

Lana Penley [00:00:17]:
Thank you, Sheldon. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to talk to you and your folks today.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:23]:
Let's do it. So before we get into today's topic, because we're talking about social emotional learning, and it's gonna be fun with this conversation. I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Lana Penley [00:00:34]:
Alright. Well, again, I'm Lana Penley, former principal turned CEO of my company, unlocking SEO. And, currently, I help schools around the country implement social and emotional learning to both increase positive student outcomes and also decrease teacher burnout. And we try to do it all through the lens of mindfulness. So that's what I get to do do now, travel the country, meet a lot of different folk. But I am more than that. I'm also an author, keynote speaker, avid pickleball player

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:03]:
Hey.

Lana Penley [00:01:04]:
Wife, daughter, sister, friend, and a mom to 2 poodle mixes. And I I currently reside in a sunny Charlotte, North Carolina, so thanks for having me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:12]:
I gotta get on this pickleball. Everybody keeps telling me about pickleballs. It's supposed to be the stuff, and I'm like and we got courts all over the place where I live. But

Lana Penley [00:01:20]:
You're not playing? Come on now. I know you're an athlete. Let's go.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:23]:
I haven't done it yet, but it's on my list of things to do. I will get to it at some point.

Lana Penley [00:01:29]:
Yeah. You'll get hooked. What's yeah. It's a lot of fun.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:32]:
Okay. So your book, which is out today

Lana Penley [00:01:35]:
Today. Can you believe it? I know. I'm so excited. Great day to have me. So thank you so much for allowing me to talk with you.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:42]:
Well, let's use now before we hit record, you told me it took you your 2 years process of writing this book. And I want you to to walk us back to 2 years ago that brought you to the idea, the concept of beginning your writing. Tell us what was some of the motivation behind the book.

Lana Penley [00:02:00]:
Well, I think before I even go there, maybe if it's okay with you, I'd like to go back a little further and kind of tell you something that my staff and I went through and and kind of was where the idea even began. Like I said, I started as a a principal in Portland, Oregon 2008. So I'm walking into my 1st principal job, you know, went through principal school, got my degree, knew all about good instruction, and really thought my job in the principal role was really raise test scores. Right? That's what I was hired to do. And then in my 2nd year, I had a a school crisis of a fire during the school day. So in 2009, literally, our school burned down. Everyone escaped, but to say we were impacted is an understatement. And our community was a underserved population already, so we had all the struggles that kind of go along with that and then layer on the fire.

Lana Penley [00:02:52]:
And we were removed from our school for 3 years. And during that time, I remember, like, it gave me sort of this sense of pause. And I remember thinking, I don't like who I was becoming with, like, this all consuming focus of raise these test scores. And I just it just felt kind of yucky. And I thought, how could we use this as kind of a way to reimagine what we could do as our school and really just focus on community and belonging and healing from the fire, but really use this to sort of bounce us forward. And thinking it kinda had to start with me, I gotta show up differently. So I started doing my own work and really studying this idea of community building through social and emotional learning. Like, our community was literally in pieces, and how do we bring that back together before we can even kind of get to the the academics, if you will? And so that's what we did.

Lana Penley [00:03:46]:
We started we finally moved back in our school. Fast forward many years through implementing social and emotional learning. Some things went good, some mistakes we made, but we had great results of reducing referrals and suspensions, increased teacher satisfaction, decreased burnout. And I remember there was no guidebook. I mean, people were barely starting to talk about social and emotional learning. There was no, like, this is how you do it. And so fast forward through seeing this amazing transformation in our school, I thought, hey. Maybe I could write this book that could help other schools kind of not have to go through a fire, but have something that could sort of be a guidebook of how to implement social and emotional learning school wide.

Lana Penley [00:04:31]:
So that's what I did.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:32]:
That's what you did. Well

Lana Penley [00:04:33]:
That's what I did. Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:35]:
Were you doing SEL before the school had its traumatic event, or was that something that was part of the rebuilding stages?

Lana Penley [00:04:43]:
We were not doing it before. We were all we were that typical school of a school not performing. How do we do nothing but focus on raising the test scores? And because of that, frankly, all the joy was going out of the school, really. And there's it was sort of this gift of the fire to be able to kind of reset. And the fact is after the pandemic, most schools have been through something similar to the fire. Maybe not specific fire, but, traumatic event. And and now is the time to kind of redo education differently.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:16]:
So that's why I asked that question because we hear social emotional learning so much, I I would say probably post pandemic. Of course, it was around before, but it it sounds like it it helped your school. And I know that there's folks that are still on the fence that may feel like there's just there's so much that I have to do right now. I had to raise my test scores. I have this and that that I need to deal with. Maybe I am rebuilding a school or something like that. How do I fit in SEL on top of everything else that I have to do? I I want you to share with us out there, like, why is it so important to have SEL as part of our school structure?

Lana Penley [00:05:56]:
And to be frank with you, that that's a great question. I would have felt the same way. I could see myself feeling that way pre fire, really.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:03]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lana Penley [00:06:03]:
But in today's world, this is what I've learned. Like, students are facing would we all say more pressure than ever before?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:10]:
Yeah.

Lana Penley [00:06:10]:
Social challenges, stress, emotional ups and downs. So so we know that to be true. Then would we say the adults are facing more pressure than ever before. Right? That's gotten harder. Whether you're a teacher or a principal, the job has significantly shifted and more difficult, and the research tells us this. Educators are struggling more than ever. And so in my perspective, schools just can no longer just become places to learn math or reading or whatever it is. It's really about these creating these essential spaces for students to have a sense of belonging, to be a part of community, to develop these life skills.

Lana Penley [00:06:48]:
And that is exactly what social and emotional learning is, to help students do that really, so they can thrive. That's what we're trying to to create through social and emotional learning. So that's how I think of it. It's an umbrella term to really how do we build a positive school culture? That's what I would really how I would sum it up.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:06]:
So is it just the social emotional side? Because I'd sounded like you said earlier that you increase your test scores or that that was part of the goal and that it it coincided. So is there a correlation between the social emotional side in addition to academic performance?

Lana Penley [00:07:24]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I I don't think you can separate those 2. Right? It's all about creating these conditions where students can thrive. And the academic data tells us that too. And, yes, thanks for noticing that. We did become the highest performing title 1 school in all of Portland. So you tee that one up for me really well.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:42]:
Yeah. I do this.

Lana Penley [00:07:43]:
And to be and to be honest, I was worried. I was worried. Like, what is gonna happen to our scores? Remember, I was supposed to turn around the scores when we began to do this, but it's true what they say. When when students feel cared for, when the teachers feel like they're a part of something special and they're treated with respect, And we create these conditions. It's just like a little seed, like a plant that can just grow more beautifully. That's what we saw. So increased focus, better behavior, a better community, better caring for each other. All of that came out of this focus on social note and emotional learning.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:19]:
So okay. You got me thinking now.

Lana Penley [00:08:21]:
Because Alright. Here we go. I better take a drink of water for this.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:24]:
Because here's the thing. Because something you said really stuck out to me just now was when the teachers feel as if they belong as well. I think a lot of times when we talk about social emotional learning, we put a lot of emphasis on students and student growth and developing the brain and and teach them how to work with each other and relationship building and managing their emotions. Like, we talk about all those kind of things or discussing SEL. But the piece that I heard that I think we don't talk about enough is the value in your staff having those social emotional learning key characteristics and and and establishing those type of relationships on the adult side of things. So I wanna start there next as far as what is the value in adult SEL?

Lana Penley [00:09:11]:
I love talking about this. Thanks for asking. This is like my my biggest passion era area here. So often, most of the time, in fact, when we talk about social and emotional learning, we are talking about students Yeah. As an educational whole. Right? We forget that the key thing here is how's the adult doing. Right? We set the tone for everything. My book has 5 keys on it of how to implement social emotional learning.

Lana Penley [00:09:36]:
An entire one of those keys is all about the adult because we found that out. We started with, like most schools, just focus on the students.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:45]:
Mhmm.

Lana Penley [00:09:45]:
Alright? That's what we did. And we quickly realized that to ask a teacher to be talking about gratitude or what kindness or whatever it is when they don't feel that way, it's a really big ask. So what if we did this parallel path, right, where we are working on supporting educator well-being at the same time, trying to make the conditions better for everyone, including the principal, all of us, while we are also creating these conditions better for students, you get a much better outcome. And I that is my theory of change right there. We have to give now wait for it. Co center with the adult. I know that's crazy. People will be like, what?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:26]:
Co center.

Lana Penley [00:10:26]:
Yes. We've gotta co center the adults, and we can do it. It it I talk to people like that, and they get worried. Well, what's that mean? The educators are gonna, like, take advantage or whatever. That is not what I saw at all. I saw people, like, elevating their game, showing up even better, living a better life, connecting better with each other, and creating something really special when they felt cared for too.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:50]:
Okay. So and I and I know it's in your book, and and, folks, the the link is in the show notes. It's the book is out today, and we want we want you to purchase a book. I'm curious for some snippets, maybe, like, an example or 2 that you can share. Like, I'm a principal right now, so I'm thinking about my staff. And I'm thinking about not just my teachers, but I have a counselor. I have special I have all these different departments to different folks that contribute to our school's community. What are some tips folks like myself can possibly do to create that educator well-being that you're mentioning?

Lana Penley [00:11:24]:
Maybe let me give you a real time example because I I like to do that. That's one thing I really tried with the book was to thread that needle of not just stay in theory research land, but also, like, how does this look in practicality? And and here's a quick story that I'll tell you. We had a student who was really struggling with emotional management. And so the student had something we all dread called room clears. You've probably heard of those before.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:47]:
Right? Room clears. Tell me tell me what's what's what's room clears?

Lana Penley [00:11:50]:
So let's say when we have a young student who is totally not able to manage their emotions at all, and so they're acting very unsafe in the classroom. And so they're, like, tearing things off the walls or whatever that is. Like, that's a really severe kind of behavior. We see it more in elementary school where the kids are not getting quite the support or in the right place that they they need to be to feel supported. So these things, let's say they're happening, and we have to come in, support the student. The rest of the kids have to come out of the classroom. I know a lot of your teachers will know exactly what I'm talking about. These room clears.

Lana Penley [00:12:22]:
And then we just like, okay. That's it, teacher. Good luck. Here's your students. Back to it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:27]:
Yeah.

Lana Penley [00:12:27]:
Right? And the teacher's like, oh my gosh. That was so traumatic. What just happened? Right? Does anybody gonna check on how was that for me? Do I feel safe in that moment? How do I bring my other kids, the other 20 some kids back to learning? So once we started really thinking about how gauging the impact on the adult, we added a part in that. If we did have to do any more of those room clears, we would check with the teacher. How are you doing? Do you need a break? Can we have somebody cover your class? Do you wanna go for a walk? How are you doing? Just care about the adult in that moment. So that is just one story that I'll share of how care can look differently when we're really beginning to think about the adult also. That could give you about 30 more. So it just depends.

Lana Penley [00:13:15]:
Yeah. I just love

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:16]:
talking about that. I wanna see like you said, I wanted to see the theory into practice because I I'm I'm big on like, yeah, I can tell folks do better. Right? We need to do this. We need to do that. And and I love to ask folks and and I even myself work on giving examples of what that could look like because, again, I know it's in the book, but it's just one of those things. It's like, I know folks are listening to us. Like, okay. We get it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:39]:
Yeah. We need to make sure our staff feel comfortable, feel like as if they belong to, but what does that look like? Then I think you're you gave a really good example.

Lana Penley [00:13:46]:
Well, if you also think about stress reduction. So if we know which that teaching is one of the most stressful professions, and by teaching, I'm thinking all the educators out there. We know that to be true. Like, often it scores number 1, number 2 of the most stressful professions. Are we providing stress reduction strategies? And most of the time, the answer is no. Mhmm. So we know it's the most stressful, but we're not supporting that in any way. So just adding a stress reduction component, which we did, we literally had multiple mindfulness trainings about ways to process and manage your stress and how we can do that better.

Lana Penley [00:14:26]:
Now there's also a systemic part to this. So it's not just the onus on the educator themselves, which we have that. Right? We have to care for ourself. We're all responsible for that. But I dream of a world where the system holds us better also. I think there's 2 parts to that. So it's not just on the educator themselves, but the collective care that comes from a system which cares for the adults in a better way.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:52]:
Gotcha. Okay. I'm gonna shift gears a little bit. Okay. But it's still social emotional learning. As we as we've been talking. It reminds me of so I I do a weekly newsletter. And, you know, with the shooting that happened in Georgia not too long ago, it really got me thinking, like, can we start talking about social, emotional learning in our schools? Because sometimes again, it's still a taboo topic, but I think about the mental health of of individuals that get to that place to where they were violence is is their their their their way out.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:23]:
Could you share maybe how social emotional learning could possibly mitigate or reduce some of these instances that are taking place within our schools where there's violence is attributed to, you know, whatever reasons why folks are doing what they're doing. But could social emotional learning support or help some of these situations?

Lana Penley [00:15:44]:
I think that's a great question. And and so maybe I'd like to answer that with an analogy that I've I've heard. So I know you like your analogies. I do too. I I love that. And and it just kinda can give us a model for this. It's called the Lake River Waterfall. If you I'm not sure if you've ever heard of of that analogy.

Lana Penley [00:16:01]:
So what we have, if you think of, like, these three bodies of water, and this is not my original analogy, but I'm taking it and applying this idea to social and emotional learning. What we are trying to do is create this lake, let's say, this calm, peaceful place where learning and connection and community takes place. And then we've got certain kiddos that struggle with that and teachers that struggle with that, and they're more of what you'd call churned up in the river, like the white water, and it's struggling, and it's hard to connect and to find their place. And we are trying to help these students before they go over the waterfall. Right? And so where something extreme happens, whether they get in trouble, whether they're acting out, they make bad decisions, whatever that is. What I have seen in my experience in school has been we spend the majority of our time in the river, in the churn, and it's really hard, and it's a big ask for us for our educators too. And it is what I call a sickness model. That's where we are putting all of our attention.

Lana Penley [00:17:01]:
And what I pause it and what I hope is we can move upstream and do much more of a preventative wellness model where we are increasing our lake with a lot of these specific student SEL strategies that will prevent as many kids that are in the river and hopefully prevent the ones that then go over the waterfall. So that's kind of how I like to think about this. We're creating a larger lake. We're being more preventative in the beginning.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:29]:
Oh, good answer. Thank you. I love that. I love the analogy. So

Lana Penley [00:17:33]:
Yeah. You you get a visual. I always get a visual when I think of that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:37]:
Yeah. Okay. With that being said, I know a lot of teachers are afraid. Educators are afraid to to do SEO because it it requires learning. Like, oh, man. I have to learn something brand new. Oh, I have you know, I already have now you tell me be culturally responsive. You're telling me to be trauma informed.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:54]:
You're telling me to be restored to practice. You're telling now you're telling me to be social and emotional learning. Like, here's a 5th thing that I need to add on to my my plate. In addition to grading papers, lesson plannings, unit, all these different things that I have to do, teaching, as you mentioned, is a stressful job. How do we if I'm a leader or if I'm someone that's trying to push in to to teach social emotional learning and and we're trying to go this direction, how do we present this in a way so that it does not feel like another thing that we're asking our teachers to do?

Lana Penley [00:18:28]:
Actually, I heard a term for that not too long ago called initiative overload. I'm like, I like that. That is exactly what we have in education. And if you're if you're not an educator, you can't quite understand how exhausting it is to have so many things that we're supposed to do. So much on their plate. There is little room for anything new. So it's really about this idea of mindset, not of SEL as an add on. And I I actually have lived this and seen it at multiple schools.

Lana Penley [00:18:53]:
It becomes a lever that makes everything else easier. Literally makes the job easier when we do this. And not many things can say that. Right? It makes things harder, more complicated, but this absolutely does. Because when you think about it, this student think about a student in your classroom right now that that might be in the river. It's a little bit challenging. We love them all, but it's a little bit challenging to love this kiddo. When when that kiddo is more regulated, feels a greater sense of belonging, is able to focus better, better able to manage their own emotions, connect with others, there are fewer disruptions and there are more time to actually teach.

Lana Penley [00:19:34]:
And that's what I have seen play out over and over and over. So I'm gonna tell you a quick story about a girl named Tanya. Name changed. We Tanya was a girl who was in the river most of the time, and I was a k through 8. So I had Tanya for many years. When she was in 7th grade, we implemented the peace corner. I'm sure some of you have used the peace corner out there, a place where student could self select. It's not a time out.

Lana Penley [00:19:57]:
Yeah. It's a place they can go on their own. So I go in her classroom. There's Tanya sitting in the peace corner, totally listening, engaged in the lesson. She's not shut down. She's just back back over there in the Peace Corner. So I see her at recess. I said, hey.

Lana Penley [00:20:09]:
I saw you in the in the Peace Corner. She goes, yeah. I said, what was going on? She goes, nothing. I just learned better from there. I said, oh, that's great. As I'm walking away, she said, you know, miss Finley, if you would have instituted the Peace Corner years ago, I wouldn't have gotten so much trouble. And I said, you that is a really good point. But when we knew better, we did better.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:27]:
Yeah.

Lana Penley [00:20:27]:
Like right. She she felt a lot of anxiety and and had a hard time management, and it was just too much with all the students in there. But providing her somewhere else that she could self select and then come back when she was ready was a game changer. So that was just an example of how social and emotional learning can really help with all the different strategies you can use to build that larger lake.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:51]:
Yeah. And I like to tell educators as well that some of it's just the language that we're utilizing. Some of the the the worst thing is just some tweaking of some of our language can support our social emotional learning. So it's not necessarily that you're adding or or or having to learn a brand new program, but some of it is just, like, little stuff that you can tweak that is already in it. Like, if you care about your kids, it's already should be in alignment with what you're doing already.

Lana Penley [00:21:18]:
Oh, yeah. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah. You care about your kids and you feel cared for, and this is just how this can show up and look like in your classroom.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:27]:
Yeah. Alright. So I I've learned a lot in in this time that we've been talking. And, again, this is an interesting as far as the 5 keys. Was was that trial is that I guess the question about the 5 keys piece to it is because I know there's 5 pieces to those emotional learning. Are they related or this a total of another 5 things?

Lana Penley [00:21:49]:
So no. What I used was what in a school could look like a school process can go through. So starting out with building your strong SEL foundation, then focusing on the adults, then what does SEL look like in the classroom, how do we scale it school wide, and how do we design a sustainable cycle for success. So the idea is to take a school through the whole process of how to implement it. Grounding and grounded in research and full of storytelling. So I hope it's engaging. So though it has some fee a lot of theory and research, I wanted it to be practical. We've all read those books where we're like, this is like a chore to get through this.

Lana Penley [00:22:27]:
That is not what I wanted this book to be. I wanted it to be engaging while we're learning. Imagine that. We can do it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:34]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Well, listen, I thoroughly have learned a lot, and I'd love for you to take an opportunity to share any final words of advice that you would love to provide to our listeners.

Lana Penley [00:22:44]:
Well, I just encourage you, I would love for have you be on this journey with me to go to our website at www.unlockingsel.com. Buy the book today because I created a workbook. So we have the workbook available for free if you just buy the book before October 1st. So go in there and do that today and come join this journey with me as we try to really reimagine schools of these like, what is possible, the amazing positive places they can be, where both schools for schools, students, and adults can thrive. So come join us on the journey.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:19]:
Yes. Let's join. And and, again, I love how you add in the adults because, again, I often talk about social and emotional learning with guests, and it's usually on the students. So I I'm thankful that you brought in the adult side of things as well.

Lana Penley [00:23:32]:
Thank you. And and, Sheldon, I just wanna take a moment to say thank you. You have been a role model for me. I've been listening to you, for many years. So this is kind of, really special for me to be here with you today on on the the day my book's launching. I would have never dreamed this a few years ago. So thank you so much.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:50]:
Pleasure's all mine is is yeah. Thank you so much. And shout out the the website one more time so folks can get in touch with you.

Lana Penley [00:23:57]:
Unlockingsel.com. Also, if I I work with schools around the country. Let me know if you're interested from keynotes to 5 session series where I'll walk people through the book. I just love to work with schools around the country, so I'd love to partner with you.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:12]:
Yeah. Once again, Lana Penley is here, author of unlocking SEL, the 5 keys to transform schools through social emotional learning out today, folks, and there's a link in the show notes. Lana, thank you so much for your time.

Lana Penley [00:24:26]:
Thank you. Bye bye.

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