Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome advocates to another episode of the Eakins Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today is part 2, folks. So if you haven't listened to our first episode on neuroplasticity, you're gonna have to watch that. Tara Bonner is here again with us. Tara, thank you so much for joining us again.

Tara Bonner [00:00:27]:
So happy to be here, Sheldon, and I'm excited to talk about our our theme today.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:32]:
Yes. Real quick. And folks, there's links in the show notes for the last episode. But just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Tara Bonner [00:00:39]:
Sure. So it might help to start with my role title. That gives some insight into what I do on a daily basis because my title is chief neuroeducation officer, And neuroeducation is really what my organization does because it combines core concepts of neuroscience and core concepts of education, neuroeducation. And that's what we do every day is take lessons from science, from the laboratory, and move them into the classroom. We do this in a variety of ways, but the primary goal is to give students the brain or cognitive capacity to learn more efficiently and meaningfully. And that's what we do.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:28]:
Alright. Well, let's get into today's topic. Last last, well, part 1, we talked about neuroplasticity. Okay and now we're gonna move into learning disabilities. And so the first question that I have for you is when it comes to learning disabilities, is it a lifelong condition?

Tara Bonner [00:01:48]:
So I can tell you with absolute confidence, scientifically backed facts, the answer is it doesn't have to be. That learning disabilities do not have to be a lifelong condition. One does not have to endure or struggle or suffer or feel shame or frustration because of learning difficulties. It is not the only path forward.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:17]:
Now is that okay, is is that a a but? Like, are there certain learning disabilities that, you know what, there's it is what it is, or are are we saying that across the board?

Tara Bonner [00:02:30]:
Well, it probably depends on our operational definition of a learning disability. If we look at specific learning disabilities, the DSM 5, for example, defines those as an individual who's within the average range of intelligence and, is behind in learning key skills. So, a reading difficulty, for example, may have a dyslexia diagnosis, Issues related to math and numeracy may have, dyscalculia diagnosis. Attention or executive function difficulties will have perhaps an ADD or ADHD diagnosis. So all of those diagnoses, and many others, dysgraphia, auditory processing disorder, many sensory difficulties, all of these are cognitive functions. All of these start in the brain. So any learning disability that's identified, through a psych ed assessment, for example, we can see understand its core cause is due to weak cognitive capacities in the brain. So if we understand the brain areas that are causing the learning difficulty, then we can change that learning difficulty through neuroplasticity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:54]:
So are we saying that ADHD, ADD, ADD is I don't know if curable is the is the right word, but it's we can we can get like, I can know I can be ADHD free?

Tara Bonner [00:04:06]:
Let's call over let's call it overcoming it. Absolutely. In our work, we see we see the only I I hesitate to use cure because this is not a medical approach. It's not a

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:18]:
Okay.

Tara Bonner [00:04:18]:
It's not a a pill or a treatment, but it's brain exercise. And absolutely, we have many people that that approach, Aerosmith, and they have a diagnosis of ADHD or ADD or they themselves or their families or their teacher recognize that learning is incredibly difficult because of their attention deficit, because they are incredibly despite all their best efforts, despite their teachers and and parents' best efforts, even being on medication, sitting in the classroom and engaging in what is expected of them is incredibly difficult because of their attention difficulties. And the short answer is yes. If we if they engage in cognitive exercises, brain exercises that are designed to target and strengthen the very parts of the brain that are responsible for attention. So in our work, we see attention usually is part of 2 possible buckets. There's 2 parts 2 brain areas right here in our prefrontal lobe. They are responsible for sustaining, our attention and tasks, for problem solving, for generating ideas, for dismissing the the distractions. And so if those two brain areas are weak, then inattention will be the result.

Tara Bonner [00:05:38]:
So if, we strengthen those exercise strengthen those brain areas through exercise, then it will be a very different result for them.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:46]:
Wow. So you mentioned like dyscalculia, dysgraphia, dyslexia, and and some of the other challenges that are out there that typically a lot of our kids will might have a special, you know, IEP for or 504 plan for. I'm just the the the practices, the brain exercises, are they similar or are they totally different exercises per diagnosis?

Tara Bonner [00:06:12]:
It's a great question. So, last time we met, we talked a little bit about how unique our brains are, and each of us have a brain as unique as our fingerprints. Each of us have a brain made up of discrete cognitive functions, and they're each operating a little bit differently than one another. So we have this profile. We have this cognitive profile. And I'm sure as an educator and all the educators out there have always been a little curious to recognize they'll have 2 students both with the same diagnosis like dyslexia, for example, and yet they present in very different ways And may one may respond to one particular approach better than the other person or they may, struggle with very different aspects of reading. Because even though they both have the diagnosis of dyslexia, they have different brain underpinnings or the or the cognitive weaknesses that are causing their own dyslexia will be very different. So what each of them need is a set of exercises that's specific to their brain.

Tara Bonner [00:07:16]:
Not specific to dyslexia because dyslexia is the the kind of outcome. The dyslexia is the the label that's, assigned a person but underneath that label it's a different combination of of cognitive functions that are contributing to one person's reading or dyslexia difficulty. So they may work on similar exercises, but they may have a totally trained profile and therefore, a totally different series of exercises.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:48]:
Okay. So it's equitable in the practice as far as, you know, I'm gonna make sure that their specific needs are being met. So I'm not necessarily teaching to the test, if you will, but more of I'm I'm supporting this student with the what what they need in order to overcome, whatever diagnosis they have received. Here here's the next question then because as, as I'm thinking about this, is it possible, Let's just say, you know, life happens. You know, we're we're working with an individual and we're working them through their dyscalculia, and maybe they've they've missed a few sessions and, maybe it's, you know, 3 months, 4 months between the next time they can meet and and receive these resources. Is it something where they have to kinda start back over? Is it something that that needs to be continuous? And then, like, I'm I'm just curious how that works, in in regards to because I know, like, life happens sometimes.

Tara Bonner [00:08:47]:
Yeah. Brain training is intensive just like when we train our bodies. If we go to the gym once every so often, it's not going to lead to meaningful, measurable change. And our brains are similar. There has to be, a minimum amount of brain training, a minimum amount of stimulation to a given cognitive function in order to affect change. So, typically, students are in a program for multiple months, about between 90 and a 135 hours across the school year. So that works out to be about 30 or 40 minutes a day across, across the school day. So Okay.

Tara Bonner [00:09:32]:
So to your question, what happens if they don't do it for several months? Life happens. They would ideally eventually return to the exercise. They wouldn't go back to the very beginning of the exercise because they may likely have made progress. Their brain likely is stronger to some degree based on their previous efforts, so they'll just continue where they left off.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:53]:
Okay. And and so once your service once the services are complete, do they have, like, Eakins there, like, a a maintenance serve like, is there like, a year from now, we're just gonna check-in and see how things are gone? I mean, can they lose these abilities again and go back to this, like, ADHD? How how does that work?

Tara Bonner [00:10:11]:
It's a great question because, of course, back to the gym analogy, you would lose that muscle. Right? Wonderfully, the brain is not a muscle. It does not atrophy. It does not, lose its strength, particularly if it's received that intensive training and it becomes strong. It's continued it's you it its maintenance program, Sheldon, is everyday intellectual activity. So if 1 if a child addresses their dyslexia, if they now have strong phonemic awareness, strong visual memory, strong comprehension, these are the building blocks of of reading, of course, of of decoding at least. So if those functions are strong for them, then they become readers. Sometimes they become avid readers, and now those brain functions are operating as they Sheldon, and they're engaged as they should on a daily basis.

Tara Bonner [00:11:03]:
So we've tracked people now 40 plus year out of the program and there's been no drop off in function. So as you say, that maintenance program is just day to day living.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:14]:
This is exciting and encouraging because I I know I have a lot of friends and and and, you know, who are parents. I've done special education and, you know, you have students that are in the program. And I think sometimes it's one of those things where they feel like, well, once you're in, you're always in. Like, you're in special ed. You got IEP. You're gonna have an IEP forever, even through college. So this sounds very encouraging with, you know what? We can exit students out of our program, and they won't need maybe a tier 2 or tier 3 instruction. These are the kind of things that are out there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:50]:
So this is very encouraging information.

Tara Bonner [00:11:53]:
I agree. I think, we know this has massive implications absolutely for, a school system that we know is already strapped, already has incredibly strained resources. It's cost effective because, yes, children will need this intervention but they may only need 1 or 3 years, not 12 years across their school career. The other impact of course, and you've alluded to it, is that individual themselves no longer needs to see themselves as someone who can't or someone who only can if they have help or someone who wears that that label, that shame, sees themselves as someone who, has to be tolerated or has to be given tools and, tricks and strategies and extra help. So there's something profound in the psychological impact of, of no longer struggling, with with learning. So I think there's both micro and macro benefits to this type of approach.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:05]:
So I wanna throw out autism. If we have students that have or children, adults, individuals with autism, where where does that fit or is that part of the conversation when it comes to overcoming some of the the learning disabilities?

Tara Bonner [00:13:22]:
It should absolutely be part of the conversation, Sheldon, mainly because many people who are somewhere on the spectrum also have learning difficulties. So that shared, diagnosis or identification is very, very common, and it's very, very common for the people to that come to our work, either directly to our headquarter school here in Toronto or attend an organization who's licensed in Aerosmith, will have that that dual diagnosis, so to speak. They'll they'll have autism and they'll have learning difficulties. The our program, the exercises within the Aerosmith methodology are not designed to directly address autism. However, because so many, people have are on the spectrum and have learning difficulties, depending on the individual, they absolutely can make meaningful measurable progress in their learning issues. And what a lot of families and individuals share with us is when their cognitive functioning is stronger, when they are more intellectually capable of learning, they can better cope with some of the tendencies that they experience with their ASD diagnosis. So it's been an interesting, witness to see individuals will likely still have features of autism and they will still they won't overcome their autism, and they're much more capable of of being more cognitively flexible of, learning skills of empathy and of communication because their cognitive profiles are stronger.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:58]:
Okay. Okay. So I I like thank you for answering that because I I was curious, because, you know, again, we see it a lot and, you know, there's folks on different levels within the spectrum. Yeah. And so I was curious what Eakins of support can be done for students that have, students living with autism. So that's that's good to know. So I guess the next question that I have is why why isn't everybody doing this? Like, I I just feel like what what else can be done or what needs to be done to get the word out, if you will? And and not and I'm not here and folks that are listening, we're not we're this is not a promotional for this this is geared towards supporting individuals who have you know this is an equity related show and so but I'm just curious. It sounds like what you offer as far as your program goes, they're so like it's it's it's solving a lot of challenges that are out there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:56]:
Why is it not as prevalent out there in our schools or even in our, I don't know, clinics and things like that that that might offer services like this?

Tara Bonner [00:16:05]:
It's definitely available, and you're right. It it does require right now families and organizations to be looking for this approach and to be innovative and to be willing to go beyond the status quo. And I think, Sheldon, you're in this every day, particularly in your equity work. You know how long it takes to create system wide change, systemic change. And that's what this type of work requires because the school system, the educational system is 400 plus years old. Still, I mean really a typical classroom isn't far off from a classroom that was built 400 plus years ago. And that includes a perspective of the individual, of their capacity, of their their ability. And 400 years ago and today, those gorgeous little, 5 year olds come into that 1st year of their school life and consciously or not, they are being labelled.

Tara Bonner [00:17:19]:
And their teachers will identify very quickly those who can't and those who can. And those who can will help those who can't and those who can't will need extra time, extra resources, and ultimately will be seen as a burden to the system. And I'm not talking about individual teachers. I'm not even talking about individual schools. I'm talking about a system that was built on the premise that the brain is fixed. That we're born with a certain ability and that's the ability we're gonna have for the rest of our lives. So this type of work, cognitive programming, neuroplastic programming, rejects that notion, which means it rejects a 400 year old system. So it's going to take time.

Tara Bonner [00:18:06]:
It is taking time and it is happening. It's absolutely happening Eakins in the time that I've been with the organization, 15 plus years, it's been a profound I used to have to speak to educators and try and convince them of the science. That was much harder for me. I don't have a PhD. It was much more challenging to compel educators to simply look at the science, the research that was telling us. Now I don't have to do that. Nowadays, my conversations are how to make this work practically. How to fit it into an already stretched day, an already busy day.

Tara Bonner [00:18:47]:
Who what students to serve first, in the in the spirit of of of equity, in the spirit of of, inclusiveness. All students deserve, brain programming, brain exercises. So that's that's been Eakins in my career, the shift in conversation is not does this really work or how does this work or are you sure this works? It's okay. How can we make this work? How can we bring it into our school and make it, viable given all of the other demands, of our day. So it's happening, and it's gonna take time.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:26]:
It's gonna take time. And and I'm just thinking, I mean, like, for my special ed folks that are writing IEPs.

Tara Bonner [00:19:33]:
Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:34]:
You know, we often say, you know, this this child needs occupational therapy. This child needs speech language pathology, and they need so many minutes per week or per month or whatever it is, and that's put into the plan. I wonder, are you seeing are you working with schools that put neuroplasticity I can never say that word. Neuroplasticity within the plan, you know, so many minutes of this type of, you know, neuroplasticity work in the plans. Are are we are we doing those things on your end? Are you seeing that?

Tara Bonner [00:20:06]:
Yes. We're absolutely seeing it. It typically is. Schools typically see this as their learning resource, their primary, resource or special education tool. That's, what often happens is a school already has a resource classroom. They already have a classroom where students are filtering into their day for some core literacy and numeracy support, for example. Well, that classroom becomes a brain lab. That classroom becomes a cognitive classroom.

Tara Bonner [00:20:37]:
So children are still part of their homeroom, and they're moving into their cognitive classroom several times a day to work on specific exercises. And absolutely, they may, initially benefit from other types of, accommodations or even modifications initially as well, but those start to fall off as their cognitive capacity becomes stronger. So for example, here in Toronto, one of the public boards, who offered, our program for decades, they examined a group of students that were spending half of their day in a cognitive classroom, in a brain training classroom, and the other half of their day in, a mainstream classroom. So they were only in their mainstream classroom for half of the day. And after they spent time in their individualized cognitive exercises, They, the researcher measured their, capacity, measured their ability. And ultimately, when they finished the program, they no longer qualified for resource support anymore. They no longer needed it because they were coping very well with the mainstream curriculum. So that's what starts to to shift, for a school, typically, when they focus on those students who have recognized learning difficulties.

Tara Bonner [00:21:56]:
They want to it's frankly, it's the biggest pain point for for a lot of schools is how can we meaningfully serve these Sheldon, particularly those children they know they're bright. You know, it's not a question. These are not lazy kids. These are not demotivated kids. These are not passive kids. They're in fact, they're working harder than their peers without the learning difficulty. They literally are. Their brains are working harder than their peers without the learning difficulties.

Tara Bonner [00:22:25]:
So to see them in this particular light, this cognitive lens, can be incredibly fulfilling for special education teachers particularly. There's also, you know, I believe personally, I'd love to see a a holistic view, of any child. In other words, there may be speech therapy, or occupational therapy that still is valuable to a particular child depending on their profile. So so our approach, includes an initial assessment, a cognitive assessment for many children who are part of this cognitive classroom. Let's prioritize. What are the particular exercises that are most beneficial and will get the most bang for our buck, so to speak? And there may be some, really good occupational therapy that can support that too. Really good occupational therapy may also be neuroplastic in nature. It may not be, directly targeting some of these core issues of attention and, processing speed, but there may be some really effective, neuroplastic training happening in there too.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:35]:
This is really good information. Thank you so much. I am learning a lot and okay. Alright. So let's transition to maybe on the teaching side. So let's say are are there some strategies that you can provide to teachers that may have students? Let's just I don't wanna say because there's a lot of kids that are mislabeled or die misdiagnosed or or they're not on the books if you will when it comes to learning disabilities. Are there some general practices that teachers can do in their classrooms that are brain, you know, cognitive functioning L, maybe in a form of an assessment or just some things that can be done in the class. This may not take extra time from, you know, the lesson, but what are some things that teachers can do, in their classrooms?

Tara Bonner [00:24:21]:
Absolutely. I think, Sheldon, awareness, in our last chat, you encouraged me to to share with something that share some advice and I said curiosity, and it's it kind of following this idea that for any teacher to be curious about what may be happening underneath that behavior, underneath that, label, that diagnosis, underneath that tendency, underneath that that quirk that you may see for a child. Be curious about what cognitive reasons, what what not not psychologically, but cognitively, intellectually, what might be happening for that individual. There's a cognitive questionnaire, and I'd be happy to share it. I can send it to you, Sheldon, and you can put it, part of part of your show. And that could be something that teachers can complete on behalf of a particular student, and it will give them a report. And it's, no cost at all, but that report starts to map out for each individual, child what cognitive issues, what cognitive areas and when I say cognitive, I mean these are specific, processes in our brain that are responsible for really specific jobs. So we have, for example, a camera in our brains that takes pictures of words.

Tara Bonner [00:25:40]:
So when we see that word again, we remember it because we took a picture of it. Well, if that camera is not working very if it's a weak cognitive function, then we can see that word a hundred times and we'll still have to sound it out. It's as though we've never seen that word before. So that's a cognitive capacity. And that type of awareness, that type of, curiosity and understanding that that may be the cause of someone's experience, I think gives teachers a good amount of, never mind patience and tolerance for, for that child. But maybe as I said, a curiosity and intrigue, a kind of an excitement to even learn more. So we call it a cognitive lens. Right? Like this idea of looking at it looking at an individual through a cognitive lens, meaning understanding how we act and interact in the world is because of of our brains and of our unique brains.

Tara Bonner [00:26:39]:
So that questionnaire, I think, is a great tool, for any teacher or parent or individual if you're thinking, so am I just avoiding certain tasks, in my life because oh, yeah. I don't know. They just don't interest me. You know, I could do it, but it's it's not yeah. I have no time. Or is there a cognitive reason for it? Is there a part of our brain, for example, that's responsible for manipulating number? Is that why I avoid, budgeting at the beginning of each month, or is that why I avoid splitting the bill at the restaurant? Well, there's a part of our brain whose job it is to do that. So I think that, questionnaire can be a great tool for for any of us to to apply that cognitive lens.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:24]:
So you got me thinking, like because I I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've talked to someone that tells you, oh, I have ADHD. And and sometimes I feel like it's used as just, Yeah. I that's my ADHD. You know what? And then they're not diagnosed. They just, oh, I I I just have a hard time, folks. I hear it a lot, you know, a lot of conversations that I've had. So with this assessment that you're talking about, this tool, is this something to where folks can kinda get an idea, maybe gauge, maybe if there's some challenges on the ADHD side?

Tara Bonner [00:27:56]:
It could do. I mean, it's not a diagnostic tool. It's it's, you know, you would want a a psychometrist or a psychologist to give you that diagnosis. But it can certainly give it can be illuminating. It can give you some clues and and, and some rationale into why it is there might be certain situations where you might feel that inattention. Because, you know, I mentioned that that earlier in our call, there's definitely 2 brain areas, 2 parts of our brains whose very job it is to attend. It's like the CEO of our Eakins, right, they're often called. Like, the conductor of the orchestra, the head coach, and they're responsible for really keeping us in the game, keeping the eye on the ball, keeping us focused.

Tara Bonner [00:28:40]:
But there's also the tendency when we have other cognitive issues, we call it a cognitive they're sort of piling up on each other. So it's not ADHD or ADD. It's not an attentional issue. It's because certain tasks are hard for us because of these cognitive issues. So it may very well be that too. It may be this tendency to attend to things that we find really enjoyable because, intellectually, we're more capable there. So makes sense. Right? We're gonna enjoy something we're we're really good at.

Tara Bonner [00:29:13]:
We're gonna avoid or evade or procrastinate around things that we're not good at. Well, there's a cognitive reason for that. So, I hear what you're saying. You know, it it seems to be the, the latest and greatest of, of buzz terms. And there absolutely may be something there, but I, again, encourage people to be curious, to ask themselves, to to dig a little deeper into that. Are there certain times of your life or, as I said, certain tasks that your your ADHD is less present and it because it may be there may be something else going on there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:49]:
Well, I'll tell you this. Just like last time we met, I've learned a lot within a short window. You you are you're always bringing the fire, and I am just thoroughly enjoying these conversations, and I look forward to our next one. I'd love for you to take home our audience with any final words of advice you wanna provide in regards to learning disabilities.

Tara Bonner [00:30:09]:
Yeah. I think, Sheldon, you mentioned the autism spectrum. So I want to I want to really celebrate the spectrum, this the cognitive spectrum, the spectrum of learning, the spectrum of capacity. We all are somewhere along that capacity of of of learning, and each of us have a cognitive profile, and each of those cognitive capacities fit somewhere along that continuum. So to be compassionate to everyone in your world because they are somewhere along that continuum. So before you dismiss or assume or criticize someone for a particular behavior or quirk that you saw, maybe be curious, and and compassionate and be open to the idea that there may be a a cognitive reason why that little struggle you're observing. It isn't a personality trait or a, a flaw at all, but a cognitive profile.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:31:14]:
That seems to be the theme. Curiosity as opposed to assumptions.

Tara Bonner [00:31:19]:
I hope so. Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:31:20]:
If we have some folks that wanna connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Tara Bonner [00:31:24]:
We have a pretty remarkable website. It's got loads of research. It's got loads of, insights, loads of information about how the brain can be changed. It's www.arrowsmith, arrowsmith.ca. We're here in Canada. And if anyone wants to reach me directly, particularly if you're an educator and you're really curious about some kind of work like this being in your school, happy to receive their email directly. My email is tbonner. So [email protected].

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:32:01]:
There we are. So next time we meet, wrap up our final session on executive functioning. So, again, folks, if you didn't watch the first one or listen to the first one, link is in the show notes. You can always do that. And, of course, Tara, Tara's information is gonna be there available so you can learn more about what Aerosmith has to offer. Tara, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Tara Bonner [00:32:24]:
Great seeing you, Sheldon. See you next time.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:32:26]:
Next time.

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