Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, Abacus, to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their goal. Today is the 3rd day of our 3 part series. And I am so, so, so excited to have Tara back with us. We're talking all about executive functioning. So without further ado, Tara, thank you so much for joining us again.

Tara Bonner [00:00:26]:
Great to be here, Sheldon. Excited to chat about our topic today.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. Me too. So folks, I I got links in the show notes for our previous two episodes, so definitely check them out. But for those, if this is your first time listening, Tara, why don't you share with us a little bit about yourself and what you currently do?

Tara Bonner [00:00:43]:
Sure. So I come from a teaching background and then eventually school administration background. So learning and teaching has been part of my life, my career for decades. But for the last couple of decades, I've been with an organization that not just L students and teachers, but also helps other schools. So we provide specialized programming for schools to deliver in their own communities to students, and we have a really specific way to support children, which, of course, we'll talk about today, and it's namely improving their Eakins, brain programs or brain based learning programs that really change the way students learn and the way teachers understand their learning. So that's, again, why I'm happy to talk about today's topic and hopefully give a little bit of insight to your audience about maybe looking at their students a little differently.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:37]:
I'm all about their life, looking at our students a little differently. So we can't we we don't wanna assume that students are testing us, if you will. But maybe there's some other things. There's there's a bigger piece to the story there. And and I think this topic today is is gonna really hone in on some of that. So let's get into it. I mean, executive functioning. Why don't you start with what is executive functioning?

Tara Bonner [00:02:00]:
Yep. Absolutely. I think not to put too fine a point on it, but it's up here. It's happening here. It's it's literally happening here. So executive function is is a process in our brain, primarily a process in the very front of our brain, the the what we call the prefrontal cortex in the left and the right hemispheres. And these and a couple of other brain networks, brain processes, are absolutely critical in allowing us to think and problem solve and to be aware and to pay attention and to be resilient and and curious in our thinking, to have some self control. It's also related to processes like working memory and, as I said, flexible thinking, critical thinking, all of those aspects of thought that are so essential in our learning, but are so essential in day to day life.

Tara Bonner [00:02:54]:
I love, Sheldon, what you said, you know, kids aren't necessarily testing us. I think sometimes, as we talked about before, we started recording. In part, there's some children at certain developmental stages that it's perfectly normal for them to test us. And though I've always said to my staff and even the parents with whom I support, if they would, they could. In other words, so rarely are children or our students intentionally not engaging with learning, are intentionally not wanting to pay attention, are intentionally switching off their executive function capacities. It's just not the case. It may be more difficult for them. So like all learning, these processes in our brain, these executive function processes in our brain, we have a capacity, a some degree of capacity.

Tara Bonner [00:03:48]:
Each of us have a strength in our executive functioning thinking. So think about those students really that we rely on. You know, those students that we know will keep track of their assignments, even other kids' assignments. They'll manage their own projects. They'll manage their own home life, part time job. They seem to really have it together. Even those younger kids that seem to develop independence really quickly, maturity, we tend, as I said, to rely on them. They're the responsible ones, the ones we don't need to worry about.

Tara Bonner [00:04:19]:
Well, the reality is they're not just, you know, raised well or, you know, came out of the womb that way. They happen to have strong executive function. So then think about the other side of that spectrum, and these are children or adults. We all have them in their lives. You know, hopefully, we are the ones that are helping people with their own problems or maintaining our own independence. But we know those children and those, as I said, these adults in our lives who rely on others to do the problem solving and to do the organization and to help them attend to their tasks or to redirect them to their tasks. And there are some students who really seem incapacitated in those processes, in those executive functioning processes to sustain and keep attention, to make good and quick decisions, to delay gratification, you know, the famous marshmallow test. That's part of this executive function world.

Tara Bonner [00:05:20]:
So it doesn't mean that students are willfully disregarding, you know, the norms, the academic norms, the social norms. It's because the processes, the parts of their brain that are responsible for executive functioning in general is weak. And then, of course, we have, you know, all of those students in between. We have students who can reasonably manage with independent tasks as long as they have a little bit of help, as long as they have a little bit of nudge. So they're somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. So really executive function, a series of critical, critical brain functions, essential in school, essential throughout life, and all of us have a certain degree of capacity, either strong or weak or somewhere in between.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:04]:
Okay. Thank you for setting the tone here. And and I wanna make sure I heard something right. Maybe I misheard it. So I I wanna ask a question because it sounded like you said executive having high executive functioning skills, does that necessarily relate to you came from a a certain type of home life. Is is that what I heard as far as, like, it doesn't necessarily mean you came from

Tara Bonner [00:06:27]:
I I

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:27]:
I would I just want you to clarify that because I think that's what I heard.

Tara Bonner [00:06:31]:
Let me make sure I'm clear. I think in general, I it's a really whether we're talking whether we're talking about key critical topic in learning, in education in general, I think what's really, really important is we are born with a with a brain of a certain capacity, and that capacity is not fixed. That is not the brain that we will live with or endure for the rest of our lives. It is constantly adapting. It is constantly growing and changing, and frankly, hopefully, for the better. In other words, there are opportunities for positive brain growth, positive brain change, positive brain development, and, of course, there is negative brain change. So in our first conversation, Sheldon, we talked about neuroplasticity, this this capacity of our brains to change and grow. Well, equally, there's a capacity of our brains to be injured, to be damaged, or to be negatively rewired, not positively rewired, not made stronger, but certain connections made stronger in our brains that are actually leading to more damaging issues.

Tara Bonner [00:07:37]:
For example, addiction is likely, our brains being wired to repeat negative experiences until our brains literally, that is our natural flow of activity. So in learning an executive function, I do really want to reinforce that it's not a set of skills that can be taught from an early age, at an early age, or at least not necessarily. It's a part of our brain. They're not skills that can be taught. They're parts of our brains, and they're parts of our brains that may be strong from birth. They may be weak from birth, and they can be improved through positive or even specific exercise.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:19]:
Okay. So I I wanna understand as far as where organization, like, being organized. Because you mentioned early in our conversation how there's certain students that we we know. They they're gonna have their their homework on time. They're gonna do this. They're very organized. The locker looks good, looks clean. It's not their papers aren't falling out, all that kind of stuff.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:39]:
Where does organization fit within the executive functioning skills?

Tara Bonner [00:08:43]:
So it's a key part of it. The the part of the brain and, again, it's likely the two areas here and here, although there are some other brain processes responsible for it. But these are the parts of our brain that direct behavior, and they're particularly driven to accomplish goals. So the goal is a clean locker, or maybe the goal realistically is I wanna be able to go to my locker and know exactly, you know, where my history book is. Yeah. So that those brain crosses develop a plan. They develop a a plan, and they put that plan in place. They execute that.

Tara Bonner [00:09:15]:
And when something interferes or interrupts that plan, those brain disease actually come up with a plan b. So, for example, if they only have 30 seconds to get to their locker, they know they're not gonna have time to get their history book. Maybe in the period before, they grab their history book for 1st period, so they don't need to go back to their locker. So the parts of our brain that are constantly thinking, they're alert, these parts of the brain are active all the time, and when they're strong, they're really good at coming up with plans and coming up, as I said, with plan b's and sometimes up to plan z's given given the complexities of the world. So when someone has even a mild weakness in those brain processes, organization can be tough. Now it's not impossible, but it's tougher. It's not impossible to acquire some organizational skills, but it's either more difficult, takes more time, more mistakes happen, other people need to be involved, or some strategies. And that's a really common recommendation, not just, you know, for children with learning difficulties, but all of us rely on strategies.

Tara Bonner [00:10:26]:
All of us rely on external methods of organization.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:30]:
I know people will will make excuses and say stuff like, oh, I didn't do it because, you know, I have ADHD, and, my executive functioning was kicking in. You know, folks will say stuff like that. I I I'm wondering if you could take some time to talk about what executive function is not. Like, what are some of the myths myths that are out there?

Tara Bonner [00:10:49]:
Yeah. I have found it really interesting to observe that this this new trend or activity. And in some respects, I think it's I wouldn't say it's positive. I think it's sort of neutral. I think in some respects, it's understandable. It's, as you say, kind of trendy, and maybe there's maybe there are positive qualities about it in terms of normalizing struggle. And I think that's part of a movement, a bit of a movement, in not just not in learning, I would say, but in self awareness, in self care, in health and wellness. I think actually, you know, our response to COVID had a lot to do with this idea that let's be okay with not being okay sometimes, and let's share that vulnerability.

Tara Bonner [00:11:34]:
So I think in part, it's been part of a much bigger, you know, kind of movement in identifying vulnerability and identifying weakness, and that that's okay. And in that respect, I'm here for it. I think it makes a lot of sense for all of us to be more comfortable and more insightful with our weaknesses as well as our strengths. But I think there's a risk here. First of all, I'm not sure for those who struggle with significant diagnosed ADHD or ADD as it was previously called, or diagnosed and significant learning disabilities, I'm not sure how comfortable it feels for them to be a trend, you know, to be a TikTok meme. I think and I'm so sorry if I've mixed together. I don't know. TikTok is a meme.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:23]:
We'll we'll go with it. Real, I think, is what they go with, but

Tara Bonner [00:12:26]:
Okay. I'm sorry. Just revealed my age. So so I think there's a risk there that actually minimizing the very real, struggle of having diagnosed and sometimes really debilitating experience for individuals and for their families. And it's I would argue it's not fun to be an individual who struggles every day with sometimes basic navigation of their world, whether they're in school or a work setting. Sometimes they can't maintain a professional setting because of their struggles. So I'm talking now about struggles in general, and executive function definitely is. It's not a formal diagnosis, although I certainly have read, and I'm sure you have too, lots of psych ed reports that refer to executive function as as a area of difficulty or or something that needs to be developed for an individual.

Tara Bonner [00:13:20]:
But I think that the reality for someone experiencing those things and their families, for sure, for parents, for teachers, there's nothing trendy about it. And it's it's, it can be very painful and it can be there's real suffering there. So to that end, I I think that there's a risk in being somewhat flippant about forgetting something and just, you know, saying, oh, it's my ADHD.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:46]:
Right.

Tara Bonner [00:13:46]:
So, and so to your question, what isn't it? You know, I don't have a medical degree, so, I I can't diagnose anyone's ADHD or not ADHD, although there is a process for diagnosing, such learning disabilities. But I think that what it isn't is other maybe other qualities, and there may be other there may it it may be other weaknesses. It may be other parts of their brain, or it may be the parts of their brain that are mildly under functioning. So to that degree, it perfectly makes sense for someone to self identify saying, oh, I have this brain weakness, and this causes me to do x, y, and z. I can never figure out how to divide up the check at the end of a nice meal with friends because I can't divide, you know, by 5 and then add on the tax and the tip, and they had an extra drink and she didn't. And that's a mental load for me, and I can't and I I can't figure that makes perfect sense, and that's not necessarily a learning diagnosis learning disability, and it doesn't necessarily require medication, frankly, but it's it's a form of a learning difficulty. And to that extent, I think we should be perfectly comfortable And to that extent, I think we should be perfectly comfortable recognizing tasks that are difficult for us, and then exploring why might those tasks be difficult. So in the spirit of promoting your podcast and our series together, we have talked about being curious about the why.

Tara Bonner [00:15:20]:
Why is it that we or others behave in certain ways, learn in certain ways, or struggle to learn or struggle to behave in certain ways, and it's very reasonable to actually map out map back those processes or those tendencies to parts of our brain. It's it's more than reasonable. The brain is in everything we do. It's very likely that there's a part of our brain responsible for that task. And if that part of our brain is functioning just incrementally under it under what's how it's expected to to operate, we may have those experiences.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:54]:
K. So you mentioned, like, you're, you know, you're you're someone that's I personally consider you as an expert, but I know you said, look, I don't have the the the education behind this. And so I'm assuming that there's things that we can look at. I'm I'm thinking about teachers in the classroom. If we have students we have students that aren't diagnosed, what are some, you know, I don't know, symptoms that teachers could look out for that might show that maybe certain students might need some additional support when it comes to executive functioning skills.

Tara Bonner [00:16:26]:
Yeah. For sure. So some really practical clues are how they manage independent tasks and the degree to which they can manage independent tasks and the degree to which they can figure out that plan b that I mentioned. You know, when they encounter roadblock, do they get stuck, and do they stay in that stuck position, or can they devise a plan b? Even if that plan b is raising their hand and saying, I can't figure it out. I need help. Or, you know, reaching out to a friend and saying, I'm stuck on this one. Can you get can I get some help? So even that active problem solving shows strength there, shows a capacity and executive function process security there. Someone who is so passive in their in their activity, and they just feel stuck, and they can't even generate an idea, there's there's likely something there.

Tara Bonner [00:17:24]:
There's likely some executive function difficulties. Another one you you mentioned, the locker. So often physical spaces, notebooks, assignments, rooms, desks, if they are of chaos, that is likely an executive function difficulty versus, you know, a systematic way of organizing, which which we have the brain power to do that. Any multi step projects. So are they a project that has scope beyond, you know, that that 30 minute lesson? Are they daunting or are they delightful? Because if they're daunting, then that's that's likely a struggle there because the students don't have that that core executive function to kind of get in line, to be goal oriented, and to persevere through the end of goal. The other aspect of executive function processes that probably are less understood or perhaps even misunderstood is the tendency to have social and emotional resilience. So children with executive function difficulties have some tough times managing criticism, even constructive criticism, even from a peer. It's hard for them to kind of keep a level head because it's really hard for them cognitively to be flexible.

Tara Bonner [00:18:45]:
It's it's not their ego necessarily. I mean, that's there too, but it's also there's a there's an intellectual process of being able to take someone else's points of view, recognize that it's slightly different from their own, and to recognize that both have value and and both and they're different, and they may very well have their own positives and negatives. And when someone has a part of their brain that that for which it's difficult to be flexible, to be able to see, you know, the grays in between the blacks and whites, they can usually respond somewhat emotionally to it. They can be rigid. They can be stubborn. They can be angry. They can feel defensive. And as I said, to some degree, of course, there's ego there.

Tara Bonner [00:19:29]:
There's psychology there, but there's also underneath that, underneath the psychology, is the ability to which they can kind of compare and contrast. So so definitely, if you see those students who tend contrast. So so definitely, if you see those students who tend to seemingly overreact in those situations where they have had feedback or where something doesn't feel fair to them, give yourself and them a moment to recognize that there's a brain process at play here, and it may not be strong for them. So those are hopefully a few helpful tips. The other tool I would always recommend, and I can send it to you, Sheldon, and you can share it with your audience, is my organization has a has a questionnaire, a cognitive questionnaire, that actually produces a report for an individual. Now typically, it's designed for for families, for a parent or a guardian who is trying to get a sense of their child's, what we call it, the cognitive profile. So out of all the different cognitive processes that I've referred to today, which ones are strong, which ones are weak, and which ones are functioning somewhere in between. So it's a it's a questionnaire that you can fill out, and when you submit it, you get a a report back.

Tara Bonner [00:20:39]:
So as much as it's designed for families, I often suggest it to educators. If they have a student in mind, who, as you say, may not have a formal diagnosis, and I think given, you know, I know here in my part of the world, I think in the in the average public school, it's a 2 year wait list to get a psych ed report from a registered psychologist. So there may be there are likely many children in an average classroom that don't have a formal diagnosis, and it has nothing to do with not needing 1 or not not having struggles. It's it's simply waiting. So so sometimes this cognitive report now it's it it may not have any wider application in terms of being able to bring someone formal accommodations or modifications, but it can be, I think, insightful and give teachers some really practical strategies or insight to understand, okay, this is why this kid is is having a tough go, and I'm gonna either, you know, try something differently, give them, frankly, a bit of a not a break, but, you know, some some some compassion.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:48]:
Yeah. You know, and and I'm glad you said that, you know, some compassion. Because I'm just sitting there thinking, like, there's gotta be students that are getting in trouble. Disciplinary, you know, teachers frustrated because the child forgot their homework or you know they little stuff that again not intentional but it's misread. And I could just imagine the stats out there about the disproportionality rates or whatever from students that are harshly punished for things that are, like you said, in the brain that just aren't there yet.

Tara Bonner [00:22:19]:
One of the greatest misunderstandings and frankly tragedies I think we have in our in our school system. And I say system because I know there's many, many teachers and many schools that, you know, have a deeply compassionate view, and it's frankly built into their system, you know, kind of a non punitive way of restoring justice and encouraging conversation. But at a system level, I think I agree with you, Sheldon, it is probably devastating. The number of misdiagnosed or misunderstood children in schools, in the justice system, in our lives that are misunderstood. And and that's why, you know, I often say, if they could, they would, because no one wants to be the bad kid. And and I will say that even to, you know, a a teenager who seems more than proud to be, you know, expelled or suspended or or has all the bravado in the world. I just don't believe it. I think that that all children want to be the winner in in their classrooms, on the sports field, in in their world.

Tara Bonner [00:23:28]:
So so to think that, yeah, someone is intentionally or willfully trying to fail or not caring. You know what? I think it's shortsighted.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:37]:
Okay.

Tara Bonner [00:23:38]:
I'll say one more thing. Only because, I mean, to be fair, there is a Sheldon, and this is, you know, well researched and statistically the case. There is a tendency, particularly for individuals with learning difficulties, to at some point to not give 200% or 100% or even 50% of their effort because they get so little in return, because they're constantly falling short or constantly falling behind. So at some point, it's very common for individuals with struggles, like executive function struggles. And I, again, I don't mean necessarily those diagnosed, but just those who struggle with with learning, struggling learners, failing learners, they do default to that sense of learned helplessness. They do wait for someone else to do it for them because they have just had too much failure and too much shame and too much frustration. So I think that eventually becomes it's not an inevitability. It's not for everyone, but it's common, but it only happens after years years of that effort, huge amounts of effort and blood, sweat, and tears, and still falling short because of these cognitive issues.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:51]:
So how do we help our kids? Let's I mean, let's let's take the diagnosis out of there. We've we're teachers, we're principal, whoever, and we recognize that there are some challenges there when it comes to the executive functioning. What are some strategies that you can leave our our educators with?

Tara Bonner [00:25:07]:
Yeah. So I think there's great materials out there in the world in general. I would say I'm not an expert in the strat executive functions because our work is to go underneath the strategies or beyond the strategies and give educators resources, cognitive exercises that go into the brain processes and strengthen them through the concept of neuroplasticity, what we've chatted about in our in our first, in our first conversation. So practically speaking, I think every educator deserves to have insight into the understanding, and again, I think their their the cognitive questionnaire I share shared with you, there's lots and lots of information. In my organization's website, we have we have a number of what we call practical guides, but they really help educators get a practical guides, but they really help educators get a really strong sense of what is the brain's role in learning. So I'm gonna share 2 of those guides with you, and I welcome educators to review them themselves and share them with their teams. And I think it gives good understanding, good direction, good insight, good compassion, as I said, and I think a really important starting point to understanding their students differently. So that insight and that understanding, I would absolutely love to give to your to your audience.

Tara Bonner [00:26:29]:
In terms of strategies that can bypass executive function struggles, in terms of strategies that can lessen the impact of having executive function struggles, I would the impact of having executive function struggles. I would certainly have educators encourage educators to look at programs that are already happening perhaps in their school or already in their resource room or in the staff room because there are some great strategies for helping struggling learners, strategies. So I'm gonna make a distinction between strategies and, for example, cognitive programming. So strategies assume that the brain is fixed. Strategies assume that those learning struggles, including executive function struggles, are lifelong. So we introduce strategies like organizers, like timers, like getting records of notes, like breaking down material into chunks, like spacing. So these are all great learning strategies that I think are just good practice. They're not, you know, certainly they're not unique to executive function.

Tara Bonner [00:27:35]:
I think it's just good practice. So those are strategies. There's also a much more comprehensive and bigger commitment from a school organization, which is to integrate cognitive programming into their school world. And that's something, again, my team is is happy to support with, but it is a process. It's a it's a commitment of mindset to recognize, in fact, the brain can change. And as part of a school's academic programming, there can also be cognitive programming. So schools here in Canada, across the US offer cognitive programming alongside their academic programming, and what that means is they have students in brain exercises, doing daily brain exercises that are actually designed to target and strengthen those processes that I've been talking about today. The 2 prefrontal cortex left and right hemisphere, each are brain exercises that target and strengthen those processes.

Tara Bonner [00:28:35]:
So that's certainly the much more intentional and enduring benefit is a cognitive approach, and the strategies in the short term, of course, are valuable. And frankly, they give students, I think, the dignity they deserve, that they're not willfully or intentionally falling apart or falling behind. But cognitively, it's more difficult for them.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:59]:
Love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Listen, I have I had first of all, I wanna thank you for your time for spending all these nights with me recording these episodes and just for sharing all this knowledge. I have truly learned a lot. And I, you know, this is our 3rd episode, and I would love for you to maybe give us your final words of advice to our listeners as we Eakins wrap up the this series.

Tara Bonner [00:29:28]:
You know, Sheldon, I was thinking about it before we came on the call, and you'd be asking me this. So I did think of something, and I hope that it comes. I referred to it indirectly in our chat today and it's, I hope not too cheesy, but I really I've seen it in, in our work. I've seen it around the world. So I know that it's backed by research, it's backed by science, and that's why it feels more than reasonable to say a strong brain is not born, it can be built. So that is what I'm gonna leave with you.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:03]:
Love it. A strong brain cannot be born. It's it's built.

Tara Bonner [00:30:08]:
A strong brain is not born. L can be built.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:12]:
Okay. It seems that my brain wasn't strong enough to remember that one little line. There's an

Tara Bonner [00:30:17]:
exercise for that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:21]:
L, once again

Tara Bonner [00:30:24]:
so it's a fascinating that's that's our next episode. You have to have me back in a few months time and we can talk about memory because it is MC. It's a great one and it all starts in our brain.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:34]:
Okay. I'm with you. I'm with you. Well, once again, if we have some folks that wanna connect with you, what's what's the best way to reach you?

Tara Bonner [00:30:40]:
Sure. I mean, we have our website, arrowsmith.ca. That's arrowsmith.ca, not the band. My direct email, I don't I certainly don't mind sharing it. It's tbonner. So [email protected]. If you'd like a more gentle inquiry, then we have a gen a general inbox, which is questions at aerosmith.ca.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:31:06]:
Tara, it has truly been a pleasure. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Tara Bonner [00:31:10]:
Thanks, Sheldon. Enjoyed it. Let's stay in touch.

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