Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, Avid Kiss, to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their skills. Today's special guest is a very special guest, first timer on the show with someone I connected with a couple years back in Maryland. I'm so so so happy to present Randy Albertson today. So without further ado, Randy, thank you so much for joining us today.

Randi Albertsen [00:00:26]:
Hi. Thanks for having me, Sheldon.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:27]:
There's mine. I'm excited about today's topic. We're gonna be talking all about the attachment theory and how that connects with, sense of belonging. But before we get into today's topic, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Randy Albertson [00:00:40]:
Sure. So I own a company called Innovations in Education LLC, and my focus is with early childhood education. We do professional development and consulting for everything related to child development, curriculum assessment, really creating new developmentally appropriate early childhood environment.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:01]:
Alright. Well, thank you again for joining us. It is a pleasure. I'm glad we're making this happen. You and I met at a early childhood event a couple years ago where I was keynoting and, you know, you actually were influential bringing me out. So thank you again for that. But as we've talked, you know, I consider you someone that has a lot of knowledge and understanding in regards to not just early childhood but also adult learning and things like that. And I want to talk to you about Attachment Theory.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:31]:
And I kind of want to start with, you know, what brought you to, you know, where did your interest come from in regards to attachment theory?

Randy Albertson [00:01:39]:
That is a great question. So I have always believed that as an educator, the more you understand developmental theory, the better you are as a teacher, because it gives you different perspectives in looking at children and students and what they need, what you can do as an educator to support them. And the one theory that I feel gets the least amount of attention is attachment theory. And we learn about it in psych 101, maybe in high school, maybe in college, maybe not at all. But you you learn about little bit about attachment theory if you take a psychology class. And when I work with early childhood educators, we talk about attachment theory with infant and toddler teachers, but those preschool teachers don't hear about it anymore. The elementary school teachers don't start talking about attachment theory and even beyond middle school and high school. And when I work with adults, we don't talk about attachment theory.

Randy Albertson [00:02:41]:
And yet what the research shows is that if you understand the foundation of attachment theory and you understand the different styles of attachment, you see research consistently shows the attachments that you form in early childhood are what drive all of your relationships throughout the lifespan. So if we don't recognize that beyond infancy and and toddlerhood, we're missing an opportunity to build stronger relationships with our students regardless of whether they're 5 year olds, they're 15 year olds, or they're 20 year olds.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:21]:
Okay. Let's back up a little bit because I think what you're what you're saying makes a lot of sense. And, yeah, I'm probably one of those people that initially when I first heard about attachment theory from the toddler area, that that was what I knew. Oh, okay. You know, you you attached to the caregiver and all that stuff. But one of the things I talk about in my upcoming book in regards to the attachment theory is how our students spend a lot of time with our caregivers, which are teachers. Right? Educators and the staff members that are within those schools, the hallways, and classrooms, and things like that. So let's back up a little bit.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:55]:
Tell us a little bit more about what the attachment theory actually is.

Randy Albertson [00:04:00]:
Sure. So when we think about attachment theory, it goes all the way back. I mean, it started with Harry Harlow and the Rhesus monkey studies. Right? When the monkeys were put in a cage with a wire mother like form, one was just wire and another group had the wire cage with something soft and fuzzy. And that those studies kind of what led to John Bowlby looking at relationships between mother and child, and then his student, Mary Ainsworth, took it a step further and really dove into what is the significance of that mother child relationship. And over the years, that's been broadened to doesn't need to be a female, a mother figure. It can be any adult figure that is forming an attachment with a young child. And from Ainsworth studies, she described 3 different styles of attachment, which, again, future research later added a 4th attachment style.

Randy Albertson [00:05:07]:
So what what she found was about 70% of children created what's called a secure attachment between the adult and the child, meaning that a child feels safe and secure with at least one adult caregiver. And what that looks like is when a parent or that caregiver leaves the room, the the child gets a little upset. There's a little bit of separation anxiety. And when that caregiver returns to the room, the child is relieved and can then feel confident in exploring their environment. Then we've got insecure avoidant attachment, and we have insecure anxious attachment. Those two attachment styles sound kind of like they overlap, and they do in in some ways. But so an insecure avoidant attachment is kind of the when adults create fear in a child, and the child wants to bond with the adult, but they're not really sure what kind of response they're going to get from the adult. So we see this in children maybe that have experienced some levels of neglect and potentially some abuse where there's some fear from that adult person, the the adult caregiver, but the child still wants to have that bond.

Randy Albertson [00:06:38]:
They've learned that no one is really going to come and relieve their cries, their upset, their hunger, their tiredness. So they avoid interactions with that adult. And then we have that insecure, anxious attachment, where that caregiver is inconsistent in how they interact with the child, and maybe the adult is insecure in their own confidence in being able to care for the child. So the child gets mixed signals from the adult. Again, the reaction from the child is more of, I don't really know if I can trust this person or not. So children have this innate we all have, not just children, all of us have this innate desire to connect with other human beings and that primary caregiver, the one that you see the majority of your, your day is the person that you want to connect with most. And if the person you wanna connect with is not helping you feel safe and secure, then you're gonna avoid them. Sometimes you might wanna approach avoid, sometimes you just avoid in general.

Randy Albertson [00:07:54]:
The 4th attachment style that researchers kind of defined is called the disorganized attachment. This again is typically found in a household where a child might be, again, witnessing or experiencing kind of an unsafe physical environment outside the house, and they just get mixed signals all the time. They might either witness abuse of another adult in the household or another sibling. They might be experiencing the abuse themselves, but they also might have an adult that wants to give them care and cover and comfort. So that disorganized attachment style can't quite figure out what's gonna happen today. Today might be a really great day, and my person is giving me the love that I need. But tonight is a different story. And, you know, that same caregiver could be, parent is under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Randy Albertson [00:08:59]:
I don't know what to expect. They that person might be yelling at me. They might not give me food. They might not, you know, care for my needs. I it might be too loud, and I can't go to sleep. And so this disorganized attachment, again, it's a small percentage of the population, but still exists.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:17]:
So we said that 70 I think you said 70% or so are in the secure. That's the, I guess, the middle area. And then you have 30% or or so, give or take, that can fit within the insecure realm or the disorganized area as well. And so how does this connect? I'm just curious. Okay. This makes a lot of sense and I I'm just thinking okay how this could impact students who might have these challenges attachment challenges at home and then how that can impact their abilities at school when it comes to academic and maybe even the social aspect and emotional side of things as well. I'm just curious on your end, what could you tell us about how attachment theory relates to a sense of belonging?

Randy Albertson [00:10:02]:
Great question. So one of the really interesting things about attachment research is this concept of earned secure attachment. So what that means is for a child who does not have a secure attachment to a person in their household, right, that they that they live with, someone else, another adult in their world can fill that void. Can and and that's called earned secure attachment. So another adult in the child's world, which in our case is educators or us as teachers, we can build take steps to build a secure, trusting, mutually respectful relationship with that child, which in that sense teaches the child that there are people in the world that you can trust, that you can feel safe with, that you can be comfortable with. And it might not be that primary caregiver. It could be a relative, but in in our case as educators, we can fill that void for for a child. So the challenge becomes, how do you build that trust with between an educator and a child? So from the educator perspective is where that sense of belonging comes into play.

Randy Albertson [00:11:31]:
If you have children coming into your classroom who don't have that secure attachment, one way to help them feel connected to you and to help work on breaking down some of those barriers to build a strong relationship is to look at your physical environment. What's the mood? What's the tone that you are creating in the classroom? What do children see when they walk in the door? What do they hear all around, you know, in the classroom? Is there soft music playing or is it just is it quiet? Is it a lot of chatter? What do you see on the walls? When I walk into this space, do I feel like I belong? Or do I see images that reflect me, reflect my culture, reflect who I am, the things that I like? Do I see that reflected on the walls in the classroom? How are the desks and tables arranged? Are they arranged in a way that I feel comfortable taking a risk? Because for learning to happen, children need to be willing to take risks and make mistakes is if they trust the adult in the classroom. Well, how do you build that trust? It goes back to creating that attachment, you know, relationship, which then begs the question of, what's the sense of belonging when I walk into the classroom? Does the teacher in the room get me and who I am when I walk into the room?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:02]:
This is good. So I'm hearing that as, okay, these are some of the things, the sense of belonging. Do I see myself and not just the the walls? I think sometimes teachers with with the best intentions will stop there. Oh, put doctor King on the wall and Rosa Parks and sees the child of this, and then we're we're good to go. Right? And but there's so much more. Or we'll do, you know, we'll do a festival. We'll do a little international, you know, once a year. We'll celebrate this once or twice a year, and and that's that's as far as it goes.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:30]:
But I I heard also in in the content that we're presenting, also in just the when I come into this space, do I feel like this is a welcoming space in which I can be myself? Like, full on be myself, whatever my identity is or identities are, I'm able to do that, and I'm not expected to behave as my teacher views me as I'm supposed to behave. That is that what I heard?

Randy Albertson [00:13:57]:
Absolutely. And it and it also goes to are there spaces in the room where I can get away from, sometimes, the the chaos that occurs in our classrooms? Are there is there a space in the room if I can't sit any longer and I need to feel like I I need to move. I need to bounce. I need to touch something without disturbing, you know, the other the other children or getting in the way of other activities that are happening. So it's it's much more than just the, you know, what you see on the walls. It's it's the books that we use, like you said, some of the content, the materials, the types of questions that we ask, the amount of wait time that we give, the balance of who has a turn to speak and share and, you know, ask ask questions or respond to questions.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:51]:
Okay. So here's here's my next question because that sounds like a perfect classroom to me, Randy, you know, in a perfect world. But here here's the thing. What I I guess I'm gonna assume that everybody that's listening to this episode right now has the best intentions. But I could imagine there are some unintentional things that educators might do that might cause the disorganized or those insecure type of attachments. Could you maybe share some examples? And again, unintentional, just things that we might do or we're not considering that could contribute contribute to the students not having that secure attachment?

Randy Albertson [00:15:31]:
Absolutely. So some of the things to think about that are unintentional on our part are the sounds, the noise in in in the classroom environment. So for a child who experiences a lot of loud noises at home that are unsettling, sudden noises, loud noises, even the fire alarm that goes off. Right? That's out of our control. But loud noises, the tone of voice that we use when we are speaking. Sometimes, you know, we're trying to keep children safe, and we might yell across the room to get someone's attention, a child's attention, so they're not hurting themselves or hurting someone else. But that act of yelling might trigger a child, a different child, like, not involved in that action, might trigger a different child who their home life, all they hear is yelling and fighting and just the sound of your voice that raising your voice can interfere with that child feeling safe and secure. It could be things that we might think of as nurturing, being physically close to a child who is not ready to have an adult that they don't yet trust stand physically close to them.

Randy Albertson [00:16:56]:
Sometimes we might, like, put a gentle hand on a child's shoulder just to kind of, like, calm them down or get their attention and a touch for a child who is not expecting it and doesn't see you coming, you know, we sometimes we walk behind a student and might put a hand on a shoulder. If they're not expecting that and they are not currently in a secure attachment place, that can be very jarring and startling and creates more of a boundary than it does our intention was to be soft and gentle. But for this particular child, soft and gentle when they're not expecting it is not going to be supportive of what they need to build a trusting relationship.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:44]:
Can you give me a little more about the I wanna clarify about the loud noise because I I I think of stew teachers that have, like, projects going on or have various activities where students are working in pairs groups, small groups, things like that. There's a lot of things going on. Maybe they have a classroom set up where there's multiple stations and so I know some teachers prefer like I don't want to have a silent classroom and and and so I just I wanna make sure I clarify. Can you clarify what do you mean by loud noises?

Randy Albertson [00:18:11]:
A loud noise would be something unexpected. So busy active classrooms are noisy. Like, the you know, children are getting up and down. They're moving around the room. They're, you know, thing you know, something materials move and and and things clatter. So, like, the example that I gave was yelling across the room instead of getting up and walking across the room to use a softer voice. So it's an escalation in the sound of the adult voice that isn't expected. Like, it's it's an unexpected sound for the child that everything you know, there there's that it could be high level of noise in the room.

Randy Albertson [00:18:55]:
But when you hear one voice and it's the adult voice, that all of a sudden peaks above every you know, the rest of the volume, that's jarring. It could even be you know, sometimes we do things unintentionally where we are trying to put a stack of books on a table and they drop. And it's a startling noise because, again, it's an unexpected loud noise that's not part of the ongoing just regular chatter that you might be hearing in the classroom. Okay.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:28]:
Okay. Thank you for clarifying. I'm glad that you brought up the the and and you know what? Sometimes this is in folks' 5 0 4 plans, loud noises, things like that that and I always recommend teachers to make sure if you know students have IEPs 504 plans, make sure you read them because they can be very helpful for our students as we're trying to make sure that they're successful. One of the things, the overarching theme that I've heard, especially when we were talking about disorganizing or dis organized and insecure areas of attachment, is considering home life and how that might impact students at school. I mean, it's Maslow, I believe. Father Abraham always liked to say, he talked about the hierarchy of needs and our basic needs of feeling secure. And I think at the end of the day, that is what we want to strive for is ensuring that our students feel secure. And I think one of the pieces examples that you gave in regards to just touching someone on the shoulder.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:22]:
I've seen teachers make this mistake with the best intention, just trying to coax their their their students in the, you know, hey, come on in the class. It's time to start. And not meaning anything by it, putting their hand on the shoulder, and that triggers some experience that a child had. So are we suggesting that we do not as loving as we are, that we try to restrain some of that love until we have a a better understanding of what this what's acceptable for a student?

Randy Albertson [00:20:49]:
I wouldn't say restrain.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:52]:
Okay. That's harsh. I couldn't think of another word.

Randi Albertsen [00:21:00]:
It's the I think one one of the things that we need to be conscious of Okay. Particularly in in the very beginning of the year when we're getting to know the students that we have in the room with us is how do they respond? How do they like to engage? And so part of that is from the get go, whether it's back to school, meet the teacher, whether it's even just happening on the 1st day, the first couple of days of school is trying to get a sense of how each child interacts with other children. If you have the opportunity to observe a child interacting with an adult that's bringing them to school, that kinda helps give you a sense of how comfortable they are with physical touch. Physical touch, I think, is one of the things that's it's a very fine line between being nurturing and being cautious ourselves, not wanting to be accused of putting hands on a child that that, you know, that was never our intent. But it's also kind of giving the children a sense of here's how I express myself. If that's not comfortable for you, it's okay to say, I don't like to be touched. And giving children that permission to say, please don't touch me. It's hard for children to tell adults what they like and what they don't like more more so than what they do like because there no matter what we do, there is a power dynamic between adults and children.

Randy Albertson [00:22:47]:
And the adults are the ones perceived to have all of the power and the control. So we, as adults, have to give that permission to children to say, I don't like that. And for the children to know when they express what they do or don't like, what they don't want us to do, we need to acknowledge that and value it and thank them for giving us that insight. Tell me what would help you feel more comfortable. Show me what you like or what you don't like. And that way, we can adapt how we engage with each child so that we're meeting their needs rather than trying to have them fit who we are and what what's comfortable for us.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:36]:
Okay. And I have another question. Are you familiar with, like, the love languages?

Randy Albertson [00:23:41]:
Yes.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:42]:
Okay. Right. Because when I was doing the attachment theory, I was doing a lot of research on that. I was also looking at love languages and then tying all that in sense of belonging. I feel like there's a lot of relations between the 3 because if again I want my students to have a secure attachment it might be helpful, going back to the physical touch piece, it might be helpful to understand what is a student's love language if you will. Or how do they prefer? Do they prefer rewards? Do they prefer just words of affirmation? Do they prefer acts of service? Do you believe or what are your thoughts rather on the connection between sense of belonging attachment theory and what are we talking about? What's the other one? Oh, and love languages and love languages.

Randy Albertson [00:24:28]:
The connection between the 3. So going back to the looking at the sense of belonging, if we're if we start by creating a space that looks and feels welcoming and accepting of the children that live in that classroom, within that physical space, we can give children options for the love language piece of it. What connects to you? Do you like holding a stuffed animal? Do you prefer holding a stress ball? Right? Something that you can squeeze. Do you like sitting on a hard chair? Do you prefer sitting on the floor? Do you prefer standing up? You know, those are the kinds of things that will help kinda with that love language. Would you rather draw? Would you rather write? Or would you rather paint? Would you rather build something in terms of how we communicate and share knowledge and, you know, our understanding of what we know and understand, but, you know, children giving us that sense of, here's how I can best express to you as the adult what I know about this topic. Here's how I can best express to you how I build relationships. When I play with my friends, I like to sit next to them. When I play with my friends, I like to sit across from them.

Randy Albertson [00:25:58]:
Those are the kinds of things that I think build into that sense of belonging, help to create the trust, which is what we need to build that secure attachment, and then gives the child that option to use their love language to express themselves.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:18]:
And I tell you what, you just you just brought some fire just now. I I I love how you were able to relay all that together. And and listen, I I've I've enjoyed this conversation because it's really got me thinking. Like I said, I I looked into this about a year ago, and I hadn't really looked into it since as I was moving through the book. But it's really good to engage in this conversation and and not forget the importance of understanding attachment theory. And, again, not from the just the toddler side of things, you know, attachment and and the caregiving, but we are caregivers. We're mandatory reporters. Like, this is very important.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:53]:
This is something that we should be doing and that we should also be discussing post toddler area. So whether you're an 11th grade teacher, 12th grade teacher, even adults you're teaching at the higher ed level, these are very important attachment information. I'd love for you to share any final words of advice that you would love to give to our listeners, anything that we haven't touched on already.

Randy Albertson [00:27:15]:
I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that, you know, as as educators, we get so much thrown at us and we wear so many different hats besides just being an educator. You know, we're therapists, we're the cleaning crew. You know, we do all of these, we serve all of these different roles when we work with our students. And it's really important to keep in mind that no matter how many different types of strategies are thrown at us, whether it's SEL, whether it's trauma sensitive classroom practices, everything starts from a foundation of trust, and that's that whole secure attachment component. And so if we can stay focused on having a trusting, nurturing relationship with our students, it makes all of those other types of strategies that are thrown on our plates make more sense because you can't have trauma sensitive classroom practices. You can't, you know, employ, you know, social emotional learning without first creating a sense of trust and a sense of belonging both between the adult and child and then in that classroom overall. None of those other strategies will be successful if we don't start with the trust and belonging.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:50]:
Hey. Listen. Yeah. I did. Good job on that. You you killed it today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:57]:
I love that. That's I mean, mic dropped. We're gonna end it there. If we have some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Randy Albertson [00:29:04]:
Sure. The easiest way I think would be my website, which is www.innovations with an s on the med dotcom. I think that's the the fastest way there's a contact form on there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:17]:
Alright. Once again, I am speaking with Randy Albertson. Thank you so much. It has truly been a pleasure.

Randy Albertson [00:29:23]:
Thanks for having me, Sheldon.

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