Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is the homie, doctor Lena Bakshi MacLean. So without further ado, Lena, thank you so much for joining us today.

Leena Bakshi McLean [00:00:20]:
It is so great to be back. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:23]:
Pleasure's always mine. We even Eakins for, like I don't know how long we were talking before we hit record. It's just good to catch up with you and see how things are going. So I know who you are. You've been on the show before. You've been on a YouTube episode with me as well. We talked about chat g p t. That was a really good episode and had a lot of lot of fun times with that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:42]:
But before we get started, I'd love for you to share with the rest of the audience who you are and what you currently do.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:00:47]:
Yes. Of course. So my name is Lina Bakshi MacLean, and I am the founder of STEM For Real. And we provide teacher training, administrator training, and professional learning for schools and districts that are focused on STEM, so science, technology, engineering, mathematics. And for all of those folks that are saying, what about STEAM? Yes. We look at everything from a STEM perspective, and we look at it through an equity and social justice lens. So it all started where I was in an equity and social justice training, and then I was in an NGSS, the Next Generation Science Standards, science training. And I thought, why are we all in different rooms? We need to be doing this in the same room, and thus, STEM For Real was born.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:37]:
Nice. And you're also an author. Tell us about that.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:01:40]:
Yes. Yes. So STEM For All, it is our newest release that was released in fall of this year, and it is about, again, just focusing on how to connect, create, and cultivate stem education for, learners. And and, really, it's just the, a blueprint of our work and of our process. Everything that we do is how do we connect with our students and their families and the community. Yes. How to create content that is culturally responsive and connected to our students' identities and the cultural capital that they bring, and how to cultivate anti bias, anti racism, how to ensure that our students feel like there is a rightful presence, that they belong in STEM, and they feel smart in STEM. So being able to put the whole framework together, and we don't we wanted to make sure that this resource is available for everyone beyond our partnerships.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:40]:
Absolutely. And, folks, I got my copy right here. So we'll leave links in the show notes so that you can grab yourself a copy. Make sure you support my good friend, Lina. It's a really great amazing book, not just for your STEM folks, not just for your STEAM folks, but it's something if you're an educator, if you're working with individuals and you're teaching content, there is stuff that you can pull from this book. So you definitely need to get a copy of this as well. So, Lena, I'm excited because we're gonna be talking about indigenous culture. So as we're recording this, this is the tail end of Native American Heritage Month.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:17]:
And I if you've listened to my show, folks, you know I'm not the biggest fan of just talking about certain cultures and heritage and history during certain months of the year. So just keep in mind our indigenous community, they're indigenous every single day. However, being that we're recording this, we were Eakins talking about some ideas about our conversation. So I wanna throw this to you, Lena, in regards to the idea of land acknowledgment. What brought you to the idea of having a conversation around that?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:03:47]:
It's so fascinating that you bring this up because I was actually presenting at a conference. And conference wide, they did a land acknowledgment, and then it was time for all of our individual breakout rooms. And so it was time for my conference presentation, and I remember getting feedback saying this was a great presentation. However, I was bothered that you didn't do a land acknowledgment. And the I I'm wondering when I hear that, I'm thinking, okay. So are we getting to a place where the land acknowledgment is a performative checkbox? Mhmm. Where, okay. We did it conference wide.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:04:25]:
Now we have to do it in every single conference room. And for me, when I think about the land acknowledgment, I think about some of the other Native American conferences, and I asked, do they do land acknowledgments? And they don't. And that's what's fascinating is that, of course, there's no expectation. They know that their land was colonized, and the importance is for others to acknowledge it. But how do we go beyond the acknowledgment? How do we go beyond this performative stage where, okay, we did it. Check. Because the problem is that we can do as many land acknowledgment acknowledgments as we want, and yet here we are in the same situation where rights are being compromised.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:07]:
Alright. There's so many areas I wanna go with that because as I'm listening to you talking, it sounds like sometimes I remember, like, everybody was mad if you didn't talk about pronouns. It's like, you didn't say your pronouns before you started your session, your workshop. I'm so L to say he and like him and, like, that was a big thing, and then there was pushback. And so I feel like sometimes a lot of like you said, performative, trendy, these are things that are people focus on for this moment. It goes away sometimes, or it's just it's viewed a certain way. I wanna start with land acknowledgment. What does that mean? Because folks that are listening to this may not know exactly what we're talking about in regards to land acknowledgment.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:05:45]:
It is a formal statement that recognizes the Indigenous peoples who have historically currently steward the land on which an event, institution, or gathering is taking place. So it acknowledges the historical and ongoing presence of Indigenous communities and the harm caused by colonization while honoring their resilience, sovereignty, and cultural heritage. So typically, this could be something like we're gonna sit read a statement. Sometimes what we do, sometimes we go in and we look up the actual land that we are occupying. So, for example, if I'm in Honolulu, I'm occupying native Hawaiian lands, so we would do that. But just honoring and giving space for that particular statement to be read and acknowledged.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:30]:
Okay. And you you touched on a piece that I was gonna ask you about. So because I hear I've heard different forms. I've heard folks that will say, you know, we recognize we're on the lands of indigenous tribes. And then I I've heard acknowledgments where it's like, we recognize we're on the lands of a specific tribe. They actually named the actual tribe. And then I've actually heard this has happened before, where they said we recognize that we're on the lands of this specific tribe who originally signed or forcibly signed a treaty on x amount a day, and it was like, they'll go into a little bit more detail as opposed to, like, a one sentence type of thing. So I've seen different types.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:06]:
Have has that been your experience as well?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:07:08]:
Oh, absolutely. And in fact, as recently as a few weeks ago, we saw the viral video in New Zealand with the Maori Oh, yeah. Treatment that was signed. And so we're seeing this happen in present day of how now, actually, I I personally was looking more into that because the the what do you call it? The rights of Maori in New Zealand, they actually have a really good system of, like, their own schooling and and language preservation, things that didn't happen for native Hawaiians. So it's actually a good playbook, and now it's getting compromised with the new legislation and hence the protest. So so much of this is, again, like you like you said, going beyond the land acknowledgment. Well, how are why are we talking about this? Yes. Let's talk about Navajo languages, Maori languages, Hawaiian language, and and the the laws that were passed beforehand where native Hawaiians were it was criminalized to speak in Hawaiian, and then what that's led to.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:08:11]:
We need these laws and this legislation to be able to preserve what's left.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:16]:
Okay. Alright. I think we established a good baseline conversation about land acknowledgment. How do we go beyond just acknowledging? However you presented it, I represent I I acknowledge that we're doing this this session. We're we're on the lens. So how do we go beyond that?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:08:33]:
Absolutely. And I I always refer and, of course, you know, referring to the book, I always refer people to chapter 11, and chapter 11 focuses on indigenous and and native ways of knowing. And I think as we are in our formalized education, we lose that. And that's why when we think about education on reservations or in charter schools, I can't get mad at the proliferation of charter schools in Hawaii because the standard public school in Hawaii doesn't focus on native Hawaiian culture. And so people that are are yearning for the preservation and the renaissance of native Hawaiian culture, they're going elsewhere. Let's look at Kamehameha, which is a private school that focuses on native Hawaiian culture, but not everyone can get in. So there's obviously a need. However, our standard public education system is not addressing that need.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:09:31]:
And that is why we're looking at culturally responsive teaching and wanting to transform and disrupt education because of that need. So some of the specifics that I go into is first Eakins the first step of learning more about the culture. What land are you on? And then going deeper. Are there indigenous elders that you can seek out? And are there indigenous elders that you can bring into your classroom, especially bringing in the knowledge that they that that they have experienced and utilized. So another example is, again, native Hawaiian culture. And forgive all the native Hawaiian examples. My husband is native Hawaiian. My children are native Hawaiian.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:10:16]:
And so I, myself, have gone through the personal experience of

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:20]:
learning about that. Don't don't apologize.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:10:24]:
And it's and it's interesting because I just happen to be in this personal experience of learning about Hawaiian history. However, anyone can do this. Anyone can learn about Navajo history and and whatnot and being able to teach that culture. So I have this 4 step protocol where it starts with comparing, questioning, discussing, and inviting community.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:47]:
Okay. Tell me more.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:10:49]:
So when you first start with comparing, one of the ways is to learn side by side about let's say, for example, you're learning about astronomy, where you can look at native Hawaiian ways of knowing and look at how the way finding culture, looking at the stars, and bringing in of course, everyone knows about Moana. So just bringing in the native Hawaii Hawaiian ways of knowing and then comparing it to present day astronomy. And you can look at that side by side because I think what happens is there's a lot of mythology and culture that is not taken seriously. And I do think that there should be some way to at least look at the side by side to see what is it that brought about these myths, and is there some truth, and is there some science behind it? Because it honors the culture, and you're also learning the science as well. And then we go into questioning. Again, looking at, well, what could be truth? What could be myth? How did these come about? And asking questions instead of just saying that's that's a myth. That's we don't believe in that. We can actually start to question.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:12:01]:
Well, how did we come about this? And then having those the a discussion of stories. So then we go into discussing discussing the indigenous stories, the backgrounds. And sometimes, in fact, a lot of the time, storytelling is such an integral part of native ways of knowing, and it's a great instructional strategy to remember things. So for example, the moon, being able to understand so many native stories that are aligned with the moon and then connecting the moon to the moon cycle. So you can just see the side by side of the storytelling and the content knowledge. And then finally, inviting community. So having community members that can share space and and really have an alliance.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:49]:
Alright. Well, I I got again a lot of questions here. So I I used to work on a reservation. And one of the things that I've recognized, especially when we're talking considering indigenous L, a lot of our elders experienced Indian boarding schools, a lot of historical trauma and challenges. So for my white educators, they were very timid and shy when it came to reaching out to the elders because they felt like they may have reached out in the past, it didn't go well, or they were just kinda concerned with how things might go based off of history. So do you have any thoughts on ways to approach elders? Let's just start with let's let's be broad enough, ways to maybe approach elders to ask to invite them to our our classrooms and and speak and things like that.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:13:38]:
So I'll start with an experience that was very recent as recent as our STEM for all leadership symposium.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:44]:
Mhmm.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:13:45]:
I invited some teachers from the the Hawaiian Charter School to come as well, and it was such a fantastic experience to have this rich diversity in the room. And one of the practices that they do is the oli, where they open the symposium and then or they open whatever that they're doing. Whatever whether it's a ceremony or if it's an event, but they open the ceremony, and then they close it. So it's a very particular structure. So I thought after my keynote, I could do the oli, and so I approached them and I said, I would love to have you conduct the oli. And they said thinking in my head, oh, this is gonna be great. It's gonna be a rich cultural experience. And they said, I need to stop and think about this.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:14:32]:
And I said, oh, what am I doing? Did I do something wrong? And they kinda talked about it, and they said, unless we're opening the entire symposium and then closing it, there's a particular protocol that we have to do. We can't do this. It's it can't just be like a sidebar thing after you've done the keynote, and then we do the OLE. And for me, I I thought, well, 1, that was very educational. 2, it's like, okay. Let's go back to the original programming. And next year, we'll figure out how to make sure that we are on protocol. So I think there has to be a sense of humility and also just knowing that you're gonna make mistakes, Mhmm.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:15:10]:
And you're not gonna know all the answers, and that's where having the indigenous alliance comes into play. So going back to your question, if you reach out to an elder and they're like, you know what? I'm not about this. I last time, I had a terrible experience. No. I think it's about asking more questions and being in a place of curiosity instead of being in a place of being offended.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:35]:
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Good answer. Thank you for that example there. Now another thing I wanna throw out, again, based off my personal experience because we say myths a lot with but a lot of this is what they believe. Right? They believe the earth might have been created a certain way, and there's different things there. And I've seen some folks get in trouble with referring to certain things as myths Eakins though this is what they personally believe as far as faith, and I always try to compare it to, like, Christianity, for example.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:04]:
There's a lot of things that we can't prove. It's faith based. And why is it that what we believe as Christians is viewed as is not viewed as myths. But if it's outside of that, it's something that's considered as a myth. So I I I'm just curious. And, again, this is just based off of conversations I've had with some some tribal members. This is like, why why is what we believe gotta be a myth, but what you believe is the real thing? You know what I'm saying?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:16:29]:
Right. I I in fact, I opened the chapter with a quote from one of the teachers. When she was teaching about Earth's history and the geology of the islands, another one of her students actually shared about some of the, quote, unquote, myths that that are part of their culture. And so the teacher responded, you don't really believe in that, do you? And, again, complete it was a moment of reflection for this teacher to say, oh, wow. Like, I can't believe that, the student was offended. What can I do? And it was a beautiful moment for the teacher to look back and say, wait a minute. This is an entire cultural identity. So to name it as a myth, to completely relegate it to disbelief, that is compromising an entire culture.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:17:19]:
And so that's why I go back to the protocol of comparing and questioning. And and, again, it's it goes into saying that you're not saying one is not true. But for for another way, like, let's say you're talking about the science and you're talking about the scientific concepts in the next generation science standards or in the standards in particular, and you're going over the steps of how this was proven and whatnot. And we may not know the specific steps for some of the indigenous ways of knowing, but we have the stories to L us make sense of it. So I think as a teacher, personally, I wouldn't say one is untrue, but I would say is this is what I know that I can prove on this day. However, this is some of the storytelling that goes with it, and it always goes back to storytelling. Anytime we tell a story, where we wanna fact check it, we wanna understand the the basis, and all we can say is, well, this is the story that goes with it. Every time we even learn about new legends, legend says, da da da da da.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:18:22]:
That's why. And it's just another opportunity for us to form a context and, again, to form a memory around something.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:31]:
I love this. Thank you so much for for for that because, again, I've I've seen those kind of conversations not go well because a lot of our indigenous folks, again, from what I've seen is, like, well, you're coming across as if you're right, we're wrong, or you're what you believe is is better than what I believe and kinda like what you touched on. It's like someone literally said, you don't really believe that. But there's a lot of stuff that we believe in our religious faith that, you know, again, you can't really prove. It's just, like, a lot of faith based oriented type of doctrines and things like that. So I'm glad that you touched on it that way. Thank you.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:19:07]:
And I also think that when we look at it from a storytelling perspective, one, it's fun. We get to learn and and hear all of the different stories as well. And when we align the storytelling with the science, again, it goes back to our memory of how we can connect more. Like, for example, with the moon phases, I probably would remember it more, especially if I connected to the story of Mahina, and she's walking to the moon. Now did she actually take steps and walk to the moon? Probably not, but it was a really fun story for me to connect the content, especially when the content is phases of the moon cycle. Like, let's spice it up a bit.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:50]:
Okay. Alright. Let's shift gears for just a second because I could hear some of my staff or some of the teachers out there. Not my staff. I'm the principal, so let me let me clarify. Let me back that up. Not my staff, but what I'm saying, some teachers might say something like, oh, we don't have an indigenous kids in our classroom, or we don't have the local tribal representation in our classroom. So I shouldn't have to go out and learn this stuff, or or I don't have anybody to talk to.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:16]:
The reservation is 45 minutes away. I you know, there's all this pushback or excuses that might come around. What type of responses would you have in those type of situations?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:20:28]:
I love this question because this is a question that we hear all the time here in Hawaii.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:33]:
Mhmm.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:20:33]:
You know, we hear some of the you know, Hawaii is a part of the United States now. Like, you don't deal with it. And, we don't even have a majority of native Hawaiians. They're not even a majority here. Like, we're mostly white and Asian and, something. So there's there's all this talk of why do we have to learn about native Hawaiian culture? Why is it a need? And now putting my blinkers on of, like, okay, or or my spotlight of trying to find native Hawaiian culture for my own kids, I couldn't believe how difficult it was being in Hawaii and trying to find native Hawaiian resources for my kids to learn about their own culture. So I think it's an it's a very systematic burial and erasure of culture that has happened. And so even if you don't have native populations, we're still occupying the land, and we should acknowledge the history that occurred.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:21:32]:
And it goes back to my concept of storytelling and connecting the stories to the science because, one, again, it connects with memory and improves the memory of scientific concepts. And 2, it's, again, being aware of our surroundings. Like, how did we come here? Were we just placed here magically? No. There was a brutal history that occurred. And, again, I'm hearing our teachers already saying, well, why do we wanna depress our kids? No. It's not about that. It's about revitalizing the history and the culture that it that was systematically erased. So being able to bring that back into the spotlight is not only fun, it's enlightening, and it's a renaissance of culture.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:15]:
Alright. Yeah. You're killing it today, Lena. So I'm glad you're on. I want to throw something else out because my ignorance before I started working on a reservation, I just I read or learned a little bit about indigenous culture, but I didn't realize that there's like what I think it's, like, 400 tribes that are federally recognized, and then they're, like, they all have their things, their own beliefs and and language and stuff like that. So coming into the reservation, I was not aware that what this tribe might believe may not be the same thing that another tribe might believe with the languages that are spoken. How specific do you think the education when we're discussing beliefs and and things like that, how specific do you think we should get? Or should we maybe focus on a broader scale? Like, okay, indigenous communities in in general, or do we want Eakins of really hone in on the specific tribes that are relative to our geographical location?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:23:10]:
This is fantastic because when I was getting the early feedback from the book, I had one person completely rip the book apart. And I loved it because it was like, wow. This is gonna be this could be a a a sample of what the response is gonna be to this book. So I was glad that I I got it because I was able to respond systematically to each of the pieces of feedback. And one of the pieces was, do you expect every single one of our science lessons to have a cultural component? And let's be real. We we already have so many standards to teach, so that would be unrealistic to say, alright. Well, let's talk about this or let's talk about that. So I always tell our educators, let's start somewhere.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:23:52]:
Let's start with one piece of of story that you find or one piece of indigenous knowledge that you're able to bring in as a fun fact or something to align and connect the standards to. Let's start somewhere. And, of course, it's even more important if you do have students that are represented from that background because then you're able to connect more. But I always say let's start somewhere. And another fun fact is that in the state of Hawaii, there is the Na Hopena'a'o framework. And this is an entire framework that was built from the state department of Hawaii, from the education department that actually and and it correlates each of the of the components of a sense of belonging, sense of responsibility, a sense of excellence, a sense of aloha, and a sense of total well-being. So it's very clear that they took the foundation of Hawaiian culture and and the spirit of aloha, and they created an a statewide education framework. Now is the framework used across the state? Unfortunately, not.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:24:58]:
But there's a framework that's there. So I always say, look around and see what's available. What what are some of the resources that that's available in your state, in your country, in your context, and being able to to bring that about. And I'll also talk about international education. In in India, I when I learned about calculus, I learned about the Taylor series, and I learned about a lot of the prominent European mathematicians. But I know that there were Indian mathematicians and Arabic mathematicians that were doing this work L beforehand. And so I would have loved to know those stories, and I would have loved to hear how that came about. So I think it's the onus is on us as educators to seek out that additional information and see what we can do to, again, add that cultural component to what we teach.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:52]:
The onus is on us, but you gotta be proactive. And I I think one of the big pieces in this that response was just look into your local state, maybe even district. There there there's gotta be an a liaison or there might be some standards out there, policies, framework, if you will, that's available. But we won't know unless we look into it because sometimes these aren't just, I guess, advertised or just reminders are are sent out on a regular basis. So you might have to dig a little bit, but definitely look into it.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:26:23]:
Exactly. And I wanna say that there there seems to be a bit of a war on DEI right now. Yeah. And and I think about what DEI stands for, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I want that to be a reminder that DEI is not just this blanket. I don't wanna deal with trigger word. These are good things, like diversity, equity, and inclusion. Who doesn't want that? So being able to just take a moment to seek out the diversity.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:26:50]:
And one of the biggest things that comes out of this war on DEI is that we need to compromise merit, and that is absolutely not the case. What it is is, again, it's scientific. If we just put a different lens on, we see different things. So if I know I wanna seek out black scientists, I wanna seek out indigenous scientists, All of a sudden, I start to see more examples of indigenous science. Think about it in terms of license plates. Let's say you want to look at different out of state license plates. Next thing you know, you're driving, and you see them everywhere. Right.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:27:30]:
So it just it's just changing our lens without compromising merit.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:35]:
I love that. Listen, Lena. I always I always learn a lot from you every time we talk. You are the one that put me on to chat gpt. I I give you credit for that one. I learned a lot just from our our talks around that area, and it's it's the tool that I've I've been really trying to learn more and more about, especially when it comes to artificial intelligence. So you always bring a wealth of knowledge every time we we connect. I'd love for you to tell take us home with any final words of advice to our listeners.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:28:03]:
I will leave us with one of the biggest takeaways from our STEM4ALL leadership symposium. When I was telling people about it, I had some states all over. We all we have a very diverse United States. And sometimes people said, Lina, I don't know if these sessions I'll be allowed to send teachers because of the language and because of the wording. And I I reminded some of these states and some of our constituents that it's not just about the language and about the specifics and about what words you can say and what words you cannot say. The ultimate message is STEM for all. And who doesn't want STEM for all? So when we go back to going beyond the land acknowledgment, when we go back to, understanding and incorporating cultures, the ultimate goal is for all. And I think as educators, as we stand, we know that we want education for all.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:29:04]:
We know that we want STEM for all, and that really is the the takeaway message is how do we ensure STEM for all? And that is bringing in as many aspects as possible to ensure that our kids feel like they belong in stem.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:21]:
Better not drop you better not drop that mic like that. Uh-oh. So L, listen, Lina. It's it's always a pleasure. If we have some folks that wanna connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:29:33]:
Absolutely. Follow us at stem for real, s t e m, number 4, real. You can follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and you can follow me personally, Lina, b as in boy, m as in Mary, c as in cat, Lina, b m c. Almost as cool as runDMC. And, also, just follow our resources. We have a wealth of resources that are gonna be in the show notes at stemforreal.org. And I really just appreciate this opportunity to to share this message for all for real.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:05]:
Alright. For all for real. So we're gonna definitely leave all the links in the show notes, folks, and Definitely grab your copy and leave a review, folks, on Amazon Sim For Real. Leave a review as well if you have enjoyed the book.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:30:18]:
And thank you to your review too. Your endorsement is right there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:22]:
I might have I might have read it ahead of time too, but I I appreciate you always. Appreciate you always. Lena, thank you so much for your time.

Lena Bakshi MacLean [00:30:30]:
Thank you.

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