Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is doctor Rebecca Brandstetter. So without further ado, doctor Rebecca, it's so great to have you on the show.

Dr. Rebecca Branstetter [00:00:18]:
Oh, I really appreciate you having me on. Just a quick backstory. I was born in no. Just kidding. I I am a school psychologist by trade, and I have never had less than 1200 students on my case. Okay? So I started out in a large urban school district, and I had 3,000 on my caseload. So that actually was the beginning of the work that I do which is on burnout prevention because a lot of times we find that educators are put in these positions where the workload Eakins of outpaces the amount of time you have in the day. So now as a school psychologist, I have a company called thriving students collective, which is I like to call it like the Netflix of thriving.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:01:09]:
It's an online platform for educators and school psychologists and administrators so that they can have the tools they need to thrive and also co thrive with their students. So that's the thing that I'm really excited to talk to you about today is burnout prevention and also how that overlaps with things like equity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:29]:
Well, I just wanna make sure I heard this correctly. Did you say you had 1200 students and then there was another time you had 3000 students?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:01:37]:
Yeah. The national average of ratio for school psychologists to students, it's 1 to almost 1200.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:44]:
Wow.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:01:45]:
In some rural areas is up to 3 or 4000. So what that means is that, you know, gone are the days or if there ever was a day where you could as a teacher, sort of send the schools send the kid who's having a hard time to a school psychologist because there's not enough of us. And I'm sure the teachers out there listening are like, yes. And we also have a shortage of special educators as you might know. And so really where this has come to a head is really you know post pandemic. Like this problem existed before the pandemic, 20 years ago when I started, but it's really been exacerbated as an equity. And what I say all the time and I think it really resonates and I hope it resonates with your listeners, every teacher is now a special education teacher.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:29]:
Yes.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:02:29]:
Whether they have ever had any training or not, students with disabilities spend 80% of their day in general ed and our general educators only 17% feel equipped to handle those growing needs. And you might know this as a principle, every human in the building is also now a first line mental health responder. Did you have any training in mental health first responding?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:51]:
Sort of. You know, I've I've here and there, I dabble, I guess, here and there.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:02:55]:
Dabbling in the mental health art. So, you know, my mission and message is to kind of raise everyone's you know, I call it sciQ, which is like the understanding of how to support complex learners because everyone needs to be equipped to handle all these growing needs, mental health, learning, special education needs, and not everyone has the training.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:17]:
So because we see a lot of schools that would do a lot of professional L, and and you're supposed to get your teacher training, you're supposed to learn about IEP, you take the class, whatever, so you're supposed to learn. You get some general information. But outside of that, I I would agree. A lot of us aren't getting a lot of very specific, how do you support students with, you know, for example, students with special needs. Why do you think that is?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:03:38]:
Are we gonna talk about big picture stuff today? Because I just kinda wanna, like, revolutionize how we do professional development in schools. So as a school psychologist, I've sat in a number of trainings. Some were interesting and relevant, but then I didn't know how to apply it in real time. I have sat in professional development trainings that have nothing to do with my job or my role. And I I fundamentally believe that PD, the way we're arranging it in schools, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, but it's often too long and too late. If you have a kid with dyslexia in your class, you can't wait till November 12 some random Friday to learn about how to support them. If you have a kid who's like self injurious, they're cutting L. They're suicidal or they're acting out or shutting down.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:04:22]:
You're like well. I can't wait for that PD next year about that right so PD needs to Eakins kind of in the flow of work.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:29]:
Yeah, and

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:04:29]:
I think there's a great move towards professional learning communities and kind of collaborations around PD, but I'm really interested in tapping into how adults actually learn and it's not in a cafeteria for 6 hours in a sit and get it's on demand and it's in a format that's sort of interesting engaging and kind of emulate social media. It's YouTube. It's podcast. It's even ticktock so what my organization does is instead of you know having the teachers have to sort of go out and look like oh my gosh how do I help this kid with autism in my class and sort of scrambling. You know our platform has this sort of you know Netflix subscribing. There's a whole channel how to support kids with autism and it's trusted professionals. But for those folks out there listening, well, like, cool story, Rebecca. I don't have that platform.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:05:17]:
Really, what it is is talking to your leaders about the support you need. And we talked before this. We did a pregame chat before this. And you you talked about, like, you know, what contributes to burnout. Well, this is it. If you have a kid who's acting out and shutting down in your classroom or a kid you can't reach and teaching your teaching your guts out and they're still not responding, that is stressful. It kind of triggers your nervous system everyday long all day long. I mean, you work in a high school.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:05:43]:
What kind of things are you seeing teachers contending with in the classroom?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:47]:
It's the amount of academic progress and insurance students are getting work done. Our our model is a little different than a traditional school setting, where we only ask kids to come in twice a month. I'm sorry, twice a week. So they come in twice a week for 2 hours at a time, and the majority of the work they're doing independently. So some of the big challenges for us is just ensuring that students are working independently, they can come for their appointments, and they're ready to take a test or a quiz, whatever they need to do as far as assessment side of things go, or they're turning in work. So that can be frustrating because, you know, there's there's goals as a school that we have to hit, benchmarks that we're looking to meet. And, you know, if you got a caseload of, you know, multiple students on your on your list and you're they all have different, I guess, different motivational things that they need in order to get that work done, it can be a challenge.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:06:36]:
And I think what you've tapped into is something that a lot of teachers tell me is a struggle for them. So they have this classroom and whether it's an innovative classroom like you have of kids on your caseload or whether it's a classroom of you know 30 kids 8 periods a day that you're kinda working with you know all kinds of learners. Many of them will be on IEPs, many on 5 or fours. And it's really challenging to differentiate for every single student's learning profile in the classroom. Not impossible, But then we look to Eakins of principles of universal design for learning.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:07]:
Yep.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:07:08]:
So my favorite analogy, if you're not familiar with UDL out there, and a lot of people probably are, is did you are you okay. Let's let's date ourselves, Sheldon. Are you old enough to remember when suitcases didn't have wheels? They had to pick

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. So you had to carry them.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:07:23]:
How was that? Was that a good experience for you?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:07:25]:
Not as a kid. No. No. Definitely appreciate the wheels.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:07:28]:
Right? Okay. So, yes, I had a strawberry shortcake on the leathery on or whatever. So someone invented the wheels, now do you know that it was originally went invented, so that people who were disabled and couldn't bear weight and the elderly could roll could lift their bags. But then fun fact, it works for everyone, so everyone's using it. So the what is the wheelie bag solution for all these complex learners? Well, I'm gonna tell you that, you know, do you use, like, the MTSS pyramid or tier 0 1, 2, and 3 for your academics or anything?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:02]:
Something similar. Yeah. In a sense, not necessarily as formative, but, yes, we we do have different tiers that we do. We have an interventionist that's at our school that does a lot of the support for students that might need a little bit more of that tier 3 support.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:08:17]:
Yeah. So we're looking at we're looking at that pyramid. We all love the pyramid in every presentation about supporting kids and interventions. So we look at tier 1, which is those universal strategies. What helps all kids? And I always look as a school psychologist and as a mom who parented in the pandemic, so we all know what it's like when kids are stressed out. How well does that go for learning? When we're all stressed out, we are in brain stem. We're in fight, flight, freeze. And then we're not in our frontal lobe where all that great thinking can occur.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:08:45]:
So anxiety is on the rise in all of our students and all humans right now. And so we're in this perpetual fight, flight, freeze. What does fight, flight, freeze look like for students? Well, fight looks like exactly what you think of arguing and non and refusing to do stuff and Eakins back and etcetera or sometimes even, you know, tipping over chairs and things. And then freeze looks like shutting down. It's the hoodie, right? That's a stress reaction. So when we see kids who are in fight or flight, what it looks like is acting out or shutting down. Now you're not gonna be able to implement the coolest reading or math program or curricula on the planet if your Eakins in brain stem. So I propose that like tier tier 1 needs to really double down especially in this time period on emotional regulation and executive functioning.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:09:37]:
For those of you new to the term executive functioning, these are all of those great planning skills in your brain. I'm putting up here because it's the frontal lobe. We're planning, organizing, starting tasks. I think you've had episodes on executive functioning for your listeners. And really what it is is like the the boss in your brain. Okay? The boss is like, hey, don't play Fortnite all night. Maybe do your homework because there's a reward at the end and it's the fact that I get to get graduation credits or my mom's not mad at me or my teacher's proud of me. But they go together and that's really needs to be at the tier one level.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:10:09]:
So a lot of times I work with teachers like, that's the counselor's job. That's the school psych's job. That's the teacher's special ed teacher's job. I don't teach executive functioning. I don't teach, you know, emotional regulation. Like, I'm a math teacher. But the thing is once you unpack it, Sheldon, teachers are already doing this. They just don't know they are.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:10:30]:
And that's where PD can come in. What are you already doing and how could you, like, fold more in your day? Not as an add on, like, a new lesson, but in your curriculum. What are those tier one interventions? And that's what's so exciting when I work with teachers and mental health providers across the country is really doing a universal design for learning for what our classrooms where kids feel safe, seen, heard, listened to. That sets the stage for the academic growth.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:59]:
Thank you for that. And so what I'm what I'm hearing is we're already doing a lot of stuff. What do you mean by that? II guess is the question? What are what are teachers doing that they probably don't know that they're doing already

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:11:11]:
well a couple of things

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:12]:
uh-huh

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:11:13]:
so in the emotional regulation realm, I like to say that teachers have an opportunity your emotional regulation yourself is actually a tier one intervention and I'm gonna tell you what I mean by that. So think teachers out there, you know, a day where you were feeling great. You had a great restful Eakins. You had the coolest lesson plan, you know, planned and you couldn't wait. You were excited. You get there and you're like, hey, kids. We're gonna learn about this today. We're learning about kinetic energy and, like, you bring that joy and excitement and your kids pick up on it.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:11:45]:
Yeah. Now conversely, think of a day where you, like, had a horrible sleep, your your kids were acting up and, like, you're having a hard time, your mom's sick, and maybe you spilled coffee on your shirt that's like, you're running late and why so much traffic and you're just not in a good mood. You come to class and you're like, okay. And one kid does a little thing and you're a little bit on edge and then that sets the tone. So we know from the neuroscience, and this is where I love to geek out. Here's a 2 minute neuroscience lesson for her.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:11]:
Go for it.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:12:11]:
Have you heard of mirror neurons?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:14]:
No. Go for it. I'm listening.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:12:15]:
Okay. So human emotions are contagious. You thought COVID was contagious? Emotions are contagious. Meaning within point 3 milliseconds of being in the same room with another human you subconsciously are able to detect how they're feeling. It's the reason why when you walk into a parent teacher conference, you're like some funky in here. No one said anything right, but you can feel it

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:40]:
right

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:12:40]:
and then in another about 0.33 milliseconds you subconsciously try to match that other person's emotions. So our kids are constantly mirroring each other and constantly our mood set the tone for our classroom. Okay? So when our Eakins, we can be and I love this analogy. You know, you can be either the thermostat or the thermometer in your classroom. Okay? So if you are, you know, the thermometer, when your kids are acting up, you're, like, your nervous system's up. When your kids are, like, really low and unenergetic, you're like, okay, god. Why is this the longest class period in my life? Instead, if you're, you know, the thermostat you're like I'm a cool 68, hey. Then when your kids are acting up you bringing them down with your calm.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:13:28]:
And when your kids are low you're bringing them up with your energy. So this actually is something teachers do all day long and they don't know it. So the first step is awareness. If you're aware that you're having a bad day or you're stressed out that's when you can tap into like in the moment sort of mindfulness and just like take a breath or even just be honest with your students. This is the easiest cheapest intervention there is. Class, have you ever had a bad day? Well, doctor Rebecca just spilled all over her favorite blouse. I was late to work. The copier didn't work.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:13:58]:
My Google drive deleted itself. I don't know. I'm feeling really dysregulated. You know what that means? That means that I feel off. I feel grouchy. Has anyone ever felt grouchy? Once the time you felt grouchy. Yeah. What do you guys do when you're feeling grouchy? Because I need some I need some I need a reboot here, friends.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:14:15]:
Oh, I take a break. I listen to music. Great. You know what? Let's do a dance party. Like, let's just, like, play a song and reboot. Or, like, let's just go outside for a second, do deep breathing, whatever. And guess what happens, Sheldon? You get to be the living lesson plan for your kids. You are demonstrating and we talk about modeling all the time.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:14:36]:
You're modeling for your kids what to do when you're in brain stem.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:41]:
Yeah. And how to get back in the

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:14:42]:
envelope. You call it out. It costs $0.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:46]:
$0. And and we're, like It's free 99. So not only are we exhibiting this, you know, taking care of ourselves, but then we're also showing our students how to help support themselves as well. Is that what I'm hearing?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:15:01]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:03]:
Okay. So alright. So what I heard initially early on in the conversation was it's not necessarily about the lesson that you're providing, like the content that you created, the the lesson plan, but it's more of the energy or how you present the lesson plan when it comes to, like, maybe engagement or even support. Is is that Eakins where I hurt things?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:15:24]:
And so also on the executive functioning, which I love to geek out about executive functioning all day long. I have a couple books on that for for parents and I have a master class on executive functioning for teachers. There's things you're doing in your day that actually are boosting executive function and just slight tweaks in what you're doing can boost that. So here's an example. So let's say you provided a lesson plan, they all have a worksheet, and you see that kid who is not starting. Does that sound familiar?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:50]:
Yeah. And I

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:15:51]:
don't know what they're doing, but maybe this you know what they're not doing. Maybe they're, you know, they're kind of acting out, they're talking to their friends, they're moving about, like, kind of ADHD energy, or maybe they're, you know, head down on the desk. So as a, you know, as a teacher, you might go up and like, you need to get started. You know, we're on number 1, and you got your pencil. And we provide, like, this is number 1. You're gonna start here. Right? As teachers we tend to give directions which is great. When a kid is in brain stem, commands, demands, requests, threats, if you don't finish this you're not gonna blah blah blah.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:16:25]:
That keeps kids in brain stem, okay? Because they're threatened. Finish this, I need you to do it blah blah blah. Think about when you're stressed and if someone came up to you Sheldon and was like, you need to finish this. Start on number 1 now. Woah, right? You're stressed. So when you see that behavior, your your brain needs to be like, that's a stress reaction. Here's the executive functioning hack. When you ask, you know, first you lean in with empathy.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:16:49]:
Seems like you're having a hard time getting started. How can I support you? What's bothering you about this assignment? What do you need from me right now to help get started? Do you hear what I'm doing with my voice, Sheldon? It's like the late night FM DJ voice. It's really heart threatening and you're like, oh, I'm gonna listen to that. Okay.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:06]:
So so what if I have okay. Alright. So I've I've been in that situation as a teacher. I love the voice tone and that and but then what if the students like I don't know I don't know I don't wanna talk like that's if that's their response.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:17:18]:
Yeah. That happens all the time and sometimes I say, well, tell you what, why don't you have a think on it? I'll come back in 2 minutes and you can let me know and then you come back and they're still like, I don't know. Like, what's your getting started plan? And they're like, L? Like, it kind of jars them like, wait, what? What is a getting started plan? Well, would you like some suggestions on how some kids Eakins get started? So one of the things I like to do is actually maybe it's a difficulty audit. So a lot of times kids aren't starting because it's too easy, it's too hard, or it's not interesting. So you can ask the kid, give them a multiple choice test. So normalize it. A lot of kids could have a hard time getting started on this task. I haven't been teaching for 20 years.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:17:55]:
I've seen it all, kid. On 1 to 10, like, how difficult does this thing? 0 is like, this is so boring and I could cry. And 10 is like, this is so hard. I can't even believe, like, you're giving this to us. Like, where are you at? And if they're like, I'm at, like, it's so boring. Empathy. I understand. It's hard to get started on boring stuff.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:18:10]:
I have boring stuff I have to get started on all the time. It's bogus. I get it. At the same time, I'd love for you to finish this so that you can have free time. What do you wanna do in that free time? Motivation is the ability to anticipate a positive emotion of the future. This is bad now but, oh, you get a dopamine hit actually just thinking about free time. How do you wanna spend that free time? Once we get through it, hey, would you be willing I love the try and before buy in language. Would you be willing to get started on this and then help your friend over here who might need a little help? Because if this is so easy for you, man, I could use your help in helping your your peers.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:18:42]:
You see how it's like a subtle shift between demand, demand's request, threats? When you ask non threatening questions like what's your getting started plan and you actually kinda get curious not furious right about why they're not starting and if they don't know it's okay. Listen last time you were stressed out or you perfectly articulate in what you wanted to say? No. Because when you're stressed out, you can't think. It's like when someone insults you and then, like, 2 hours later, you're like, I had the perfect comeback.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. You never

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:19:09]:
have the perfect comeback in the moment because you're flooded with emotion. They may not know, but you're gonna be a gentle thoughtful partner with them. And it doesn't mean you have to be, like, you know, just warm and not firm. It's both. I really need us to get this done today so we can move on to something L, perhaps a little more interesting. How can I support you?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:29]:
And not only does that help with getting the student more motivated and developing that relationship, but like you said, it shows the empathy. And then also, it supports the the burnout. Right? The frustration on your end as an educator because you're you're looking at the student. And, again, there's always a story behind why a student is acting the way they're acting. And and just being able to say, okay. I got them going. I had a breakthrough, whatever it is. All these things make so much sense to me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:58]:
Thank thank you so much for sharing this.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:19:59]:
You're welcome. I think one of the things that we've we've forgot as educators is that you know number 1 we set the emotional tone in the classroom, but number 2 is that kids aren't giving us a hard time when they're not doing their work.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:12]:
Yeah, they're

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:20:12]:
having a hard time. They're having a hard time with emotional regulation. They're having a hard time with executive functioning and when we lean in with compassion and empathy, then we're more likely to have those great breakthroughs, which was, like, the reason we became educators is bridging and teaching these kids who have complex needs. It's so satisfying. But here's the rub. You have to be in a space where you have patience to do that. And when we're stressed out, we're in brain stem. Right? And we're not thinking properly.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:20:44]:
Now here's the thing. I think lately, and maybe it's always been the case, but I've seen it ramp up, is this sort of self care. I'm telling you, I never say the s word when I'm doing presentations on burnout. I will get things thrown at me. If I tell one more teacher to, like, self care, it's this doesn't go well. And why is that? L care bad? No. But it suggests that your burnout is a personal self care fail.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:07]:
You're not

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:21:08]:
happy enough. You're not working out enough. You're not carving it out enough me time. I L you what, self care is off the job after the stress has already happened. And I wanna look upstream, Sheldon. What is causing the stress so that we can address that and not build a life we have to escape from on self care Sunday? Because there's no bubble bath that was relaxing enough to get me out of a 3,000 kid caseload.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:32]:
This is interesting. Okay. So so because I never looked at it this way, and I and I've had a lot of episodes in in regards to self care. And and so now you're you're bringing at a a different angle that I never considered. Tell me more. So is so is self care not if I tell someone, hey, what does your self care regimen look like? What is that that could be could Eakins a I guess, it could be received as, look, you're saying this is on me, why I'm feeling this way? Is that kinda what I'm what I heard?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:21:59]:
That's what I'm hearing from teachers.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:01]:
Okay.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:22:01]:
They're like, if I hear self care one more time, I'm gonna freaking scream. So I think it's a both and. There's nothing that's absolutist. Like, I wouldn't ever be like, you shouldn't self care. Right? What I'm saying is there's a combo deal.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:13]:
Okay.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:22:14]:
It's on the job and off the job. There's a thing called the stress cycle. Okay? Whereas the stressor happens, the stressor goes away, and then our nervous system re has to reboot from that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:23]:
Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:22:23]:
And we have these micro stressors all day long. The copier doesn't work. That kid gave me an eye roll. That parent sent me a nasty gram. Okay? And then the stressor goes away. If we don't complete the stress cycle, release it through self care, then it stacks up. And the body keeps the score or we get sick and we have to take sick days. So it's absolutely essential that we release that stress.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:22:44]:
How do you do that? The classics. Working out, being with people, and healthy distraction. You know? Watching an episode of Abbott L never hurt anyone because laughter is great medicine. Okay? Those three things, do a thing, be with a person, and move your body, those three things are not those are essentials. That's like, you know, food and water for teachers. You gotta do it to release the stress cycle. But the other thing, the slight twist on that is what can we do about the stressors to have less stressors? And that's where leaders come in. How can I what can I take off your plate right now? How can I support you? You need more support for these kids with autism in your classroom or ADHD and you don't have the training? Awesome.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:23:26]:
Let me provide you on demand learning for that. Let's do as 5 to 10 minutes at the beginning of our staff meeting to talk about what our best practices in our community. If you have constant stressors that are predictable and repeatable such as you have a bunch of kids with complex needs and you don't have the training, let's talk about that. That's the root. I like to call this all kind of like tier 0 support. Underneath all of these greater interventions is what can we do to support our teachers, our school psychologists, our mental health providers, our speech language pathologist, everybody in the building, all the adults in the building. And so it is not that self care is bad. It's definitely necessary but not sufficient.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:06]:
It's more than just self care.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:24:07]:
It's more than just self care Sunday.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:10]:
Self care Sunday.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:24:13]:
I love self care Sunday. I'm here to tell you, I go with my daughters. I go downtown. We do a little bike ride. Get our nails done. As you can see, I need it. Sunday is the

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:22]:
Today's Sundays. Right?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:24:23]:
Sunday, I'm doing that right after this. That is absolutely vital. But at the same time, what's upstream? What's causing this? What can we how can we interrupt the stress cycle at the beginning, not just deal with it at

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:35]:
the So a message that I took from this part is, you know, as a principal is, yeah, what can I do in my leadership role to, like you said, take something off of someone's plate? Are there should I wait for a teacher or a staff member to come up to me and say, I'm stressed, or are there some ways that I could be proactive in my approach so that I can take some things off so they don't feel like they have to come to me for things?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:25:00]:
I'm here to tell you at the height of my burnout. I was 15 years and I was in Oakland School District if someone would come to me and be like girl you burn are you burn out? Are you I'd be like no. I'm just really tired. Yeah because we don't identify passion for our kids as burnout. We identify burnout as like the guy who's phoning it in who don't care, but we care so much that we're working longer, stronger, harder, faster, beating ourselves up for not being, you know, good enough to get to every kid and not giving ourselves that self compassion. Like, I'm doing the best with the tools I have at the time at my disposal. So I think that if we wait until teachers come to us, it's it's almost too late at that point. They have identified it.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:25:41]:
I think we need to be proactive and we need to set up spaces and places where we can do that. So here's a got three things off the cuff that I've seen that leaders have done. So one, and I can't remember the snappy name for this but I learned this from a colleague. It's basically like a listening session where the principal sits in the room, and this is hard for principals, and the teachers just share out. Here's something I'm stressed about. The key is the principal in that moment just has to write it down. Not try to solve it. Just write it down.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:26:13]:
Okay. K. So I'm hearing that when, you know, these kids don't show up for school, that stresses you out because you worry about them. Got it. I hear that your classroom is 10 degrees Celsius and that's freezing for you or whatever it is. Like, or you don't have enough prep time or your prep time is being taken by IEPs. And just listen. And every, you know, whatever cadence, it's a listening session.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:26:37]:
I hear you. Okay. And then you take it back to your leadership team and you have a think like, oh, what is within our control? What can we actually do to move the needle? And you can come back to that meeting like, we heard you. The consensus around here was that y'all wanna keep your prep time sacred. The challenge is, you know, we also have to do IEPs. So we're working on a leadership as our leadership team on that. Then everyone feels heard. Like, I'm doing everything in my power to support you.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:27:01]:
Another thing that principals have done is they have done professional development specifically around burnout prevention. And and there's various things that I've done. I pushed into schools and done it like whole school, district wide, etcetera. And now is this an appropriate time for a shameless plug for my book?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:16]:
Go for it.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:27:17]:
What happened to happen here?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:19]:
That's crazy. To mention it.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:27:21]:
Book club. Have a little book club. This is like the atomic habits of it for educators. Small neuroscience backed micro habits that are too small to fail. What can you do in the job when the stress is actually happening to avoid burnout and thrive and, dare I say, co thrive with your students? Because when you're thriving, your students pick up on that and they are thriving. So, anyway, a book club is an easy way to get started. You can talk about it. Chapter 1 is all about your strengths.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:27:52]:
We always talk about kids' strengths. We try to tap into their strengths. Have you ever taken a strengths inventory?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:27:57]:
Is that Clifton?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:27:58]:
Clifton's one of them.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:00]:
Yeah. I have that right here as a matter of fact.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:28:02]:
Yeah. There you go. Let's just

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:04]:
Yeah. I just, Harmony. Man, I don't remember all of them, but I I I I did it, like, in April, so I I had to list somewhere. I had to go find it. But I remember Harmony Harmony was one of them.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:28:16]:
Harmony. Right. So now you could think about, like, alright. Every morning, your little daily affirmation, like, how can I bring Harmony into my day? How can I tap into my strength? So we have a strength based inventory that's just for educators. It harnesses CliftonStrengths via character and 4 pillars of thriving, which is my own research on how to prevent burnout. And it put it all together. Have you ever heard of the Enneagram?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:39]:
Yes. I had a guest that talked about that before.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:28:41]:
Great. So ours is called the Thriveogram. Okay. So it's 8 personality types that suit you best as an educator. So first off, it's like, what is your strength? How do you unlock that? So you're gonna be on, like, cutting edge of positive psychology research. You could understand how does that play out in your day? How do you use that to prevent burnout? What is the the dark side of your strength? What is the burnout trap? Once you know it, you don't walk into it. How do you get out of it? And then there's practical suggestions on how to use that strength in your day to co thrive with your kiddos. So this is all free 99 again for your people to take the Thrive O Gram.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:29:18]:
If you you'll put it in the show notes, but it's thrivingstudents.comforward/ thrive, oh, no hyphens. And you can take this inventory, and it will tell you, listen. This is your strength. So mine's love like, one of mine's love of learning. So, like, when I'm going into a contentious parent meeting, which I've I'm a school psychologist, so I've had a couple of those. Instead of being like, oh this is gonna be horrible and this is gonna be so stressful and this lawyer is here and then advocates here and are they my report gonna I love learning and I'm gonna learn how to present difficult news Sheldon I'm gonna learn how to, you know, not take things personally and I'm gonna learn how to collaborate and connect with people who are frustrated, okay? Or if your strength is like forgiveness, you know, after all this meeting is done I'm gonna forgive the advocate for coming in hot because I know they're just trying to help kids. And so when you arm yourself with your strengths prior to a stressful event, the research shows that you you interpret the event as less stressful. And our brains believe what we tell them.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:30:13]:
If we tell them this is gonna suck, it's gonna suck. And if we say I can use my strengths to get through this and I've survived single IEP meeting I've ever been to then you have a different lens. So it really taps into positive psychology. So this is something fun you could do for free with your staff or your as a teacher. Take the Thrivegram, have a discussion about it, have a book club. There's a number of ways that you can start to really do those tier 0 supports for teachers and your mental health providers in the schools.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:39]:
Got you.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:30:39]:
I want you to take the Thrive O Gram, and I want you to report back to me what your strengths are. I find that would be very interesting and for real listeners to know what your strengths are.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:30:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like fun. And, folks, we we we got the links in the show notes. So definitely check it out, and I'll I'll I'll go ahead and find out my strengths as well. I I'll say this, doctor Rebecca. I've learned a lot from this conversation, especially, like, the some of the key takeaways were, like, the self care conversation we had, talking about, like, just the energy that we bring into the classroom and how that impacts how that lesson will go. And then as an administrator myself, just being able to support staff and say, what can I take off of their plate? What can I do to support them so that they aren't burning out? Because it's so much to retain, to to have to rehire someone, to go through that whole process and interviews and then background checks, and, man, it's just been crazy.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:31:35]:
So these are some really valuable feedbacks that I've gotten just from this conversation. I'd love for you to take us home with any final word of advice to our listeners out there.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:31:43]:
Alright. Well, I'm gonna throw you a curve ball. Okay? I'm gonna introduce a new concept, but it's one of the concepts in my book that it's my favorite chapter, but don't tell the others. Self compassion. Okay? Self compassion is treating yourself like you would a best friend. Self compassion can be done on the job when the stress is actually happening. Self care again, off the job, important, valuable, essential. Self compassion is being gentle with yourself.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:32:10]:
So self care, the bubble bath after work, self compassion is the bubbles in your mind that you are telling yourself. The research shows when we are self compassionate, we're less likely to burn out. What does that look like? It looks like us having 3 things. In a moment of stress, you tell yourself three things. The first is mindfulness. You identify the stress. I feel stressed out because that lesson plan did not go well. And I spent all weekend on Pinterest planning it.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:32:37]:
And when you do that, it tames your amygdala. We call name it to tame it which is I feel stressed, I feel worried, I feel anxious, I feel sad. That alone can tamper down the stress. It reduces amygdala firing which is the fire alarm in our brain that we're in trouble. The second one is common humanity which is I'm not the only teacher who has had a lesson that didn't go to plan. I am not alone. There's nothing wrong with me as a teacher. Sometimes lessons don't go well and I learn from them.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:33:07]:
And the third is what advice would I give a best teacher friend right now? Well, I tell them, you know, tweak it for next time. You did your best. Why don't you take the weekend off because rest and happy minds are actually better and more creative? And that's where the self care comes in so when we are self compassionate, it actually drives self care and then we do self care. We're in a better head space and we're more compassionate. It's a virtuous cycle versus a vicious cycle and I think that self compassion is a hard time, Sheldon. We are having a hard time ourselves. And so if we can give ourselves the same grace, love, and compassion we give our colleagues, then we're gonna be in a much better place ourselves. And you said it, I mean, recruiting is hard.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:33:53]:
Retention is the new recruitment, okay?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:33:55]:
Yeah.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:33:56]:
And if you're a teacher and you put your heart and soul and years and all this training, don't give up because there are things that you can do and I know it's hard but start with self compassion. And it's it's not easy to dig yourself out of burnout but it is possible. I was in burnout for 15 years and when I started studying the science of positive psychology and burnout and I didn't change districts, I changed from within. Because wherever you go, there you are. You do go to a new district and you haven't figured out how to deal with stress, then that cycle repeats in your next district. The grass isn't always greener somewhere else. It's a different grass.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:34:32]:
I like that different grass. We're gonna leave it there. If we got some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:34:37]:
The best way, 1st thriving students.com. We have a number of free resources. You can join my Thrive archive newsletter, which is monthly tools you can use to support complex learner and protect yourself from burnout. Also feel free to take the Thrive O Gram, thrivingstudents.com/thriveogram. But also if you are interested in seeing embarrassing TikToks, my middle school daughter has deemed my TikTok profile cringe, but good dancing. So if you like cringe, but good dancing on topics such as how to help neurodiverse students, burnout prevention, my TikTok handle is at thriving students. And my Instagram is at thriving school psych. And I'm sure you'll put them in the show notes, but you know what? Burnout is a heavy topic.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:35:24]:
So no laughing matter, but sometimes humor heals. So there's some interesting things if you wanna check those out on TikTok or Instagram.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:35:33]:
Alright. Absolutely. And again, we'll leave all the links in the show notes, folks. Doctor Rebecca Brandstetter is here. Thank you so much for your time.

Dr. Rebecca Brandstetter [00:35:40]:
Thank you for having me.

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