Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their skulls. Today's special guest is Marisol Solarte Erlacher. So without further ado, Marisol, thank you so much for joining us today.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:00:19]:
Thank you for having me, Sheldon.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:20]:
Pleasure is all mine. I'm excited for today's conversation because this one is kind of personal for me. But before we get into it, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:00:30]:
do. Sure. So I actually have been a psychotherapist in private practice for the past 25 years or a little less than 25 years. And I'm currently providing training and consulting to midsize companies and organizations around building resilient teams, mitigating chronic stress, and just overall building a psychologically safe culture.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:51]:
Alright. So and you and he and where are you located? I'm in Denver, Colorado. Alright. Denver, Colorado. So let's get into it because, you know, before we start a recording, I mentioned to you that I've spent a lot of time in predominantly white spaces. And as a result, I found myself needing to code switch. Yeah. And that's gonna be today's conversation.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:13]:
It's all about code switching and how it impacts mental health. But just so those who are listening who may not be familiar with this term, I'd love to start there. Could you define code switching?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:01:23]:
Sure. So code switching essentially is when an individual has to adjust their language, behavior, appearance, self expression in order to fit the dominant culture of their environment. And this particularly happens in both professional and academic settings. More often than not, it's it's experienced by people of marginalized or underrepresented groups or populations. And in some way, they feel pressure to be able to suppress what we would consider aspects of their authentic self in order to feel like they're accepted or that they can advance professionally or avoid any type of negative stereotypes or any type of negative feedback.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:59]:
Alright. I love the I love I love the way this is starting. Like, you're. Like, if I typed in Webster, like, it would that's perfect. That was perfect example. Okay. Yeah. Give me some examples.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:12]:
What could that look like as far as the code switching?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:02:15]:
Yeah. I think, you know, as you're brought up, that this idea of code switching is very personal to you and it's also very personal to me. Part of what happens is that you have to, when you go into an environment, typically we want to show up as our authentic self or we wanna just be able to show up and be able to talk and be who we are. And more often than not because of racism, systemic racism, because of discrimination, many people of marginalized communities know that they're they're facing some bias or barriers in the environment that they're in. And so more often than not, they feel as though they have to not be who they are and maybe their personal or private life in order to feel accepted in their professional or academic life. So how could this could show up? It could be how we talk. It could be the clothes that we wear. It could be the topics that we talk about.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:03:05]:
And it it really just it's a way that we start to move in between 2 different spaces in order to feel as though we can advance in our lives in the environments that we're we're placed in.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:18]:
So as I'm listening to your response as far as the examples go, it's got me thinking, like, I know and I've mentioned this on the show before. Like, there was a time when it came to doing a job interview. So let's say I was looking for a job, and I would cut my hair. I I would go down to low cut, try to get the waves back, the whole 9, because I didn't want to appear threatening. Right? Nowadays, I don't care. But there was a time, like, I was, like, big on first impressions. I need to look a certain way. Absolutely.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:51]:
There's absolutely no way I was gonna wear a pair of Jordans to certain places. Yeah. Because As a result, I I didn't wanna be perceived as a certain stereotype.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:04:00]:
Mhmm. So it

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:00]:
got me thinking about, like, stereotypes and stereotype threats, and so I don't want to succumb to those type of things. So I am not being authentic in certain ways because I feel I need to appeal to the dominant culture.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:04:14]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I have a very similar experience in that. I very you would never tell from this video, but I have very curly hair And somehow very unconsciously, which I'm sure there's ways that you got this message unconsciously and then maybe very con very consciously that curly hair is not a per is not professional. And I don't know where that came from. I don't know how I heard that message, but it became very clear to me that in order for me to be more acceptable in professional spaces or academic spaces or in even in my business, I would have to wear my hair straight. And so and that's something that I battle with. That was this unconscious message in my environment that made me change the way that I I do my hair.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:04:55]:
And, you know, I mean, to your and also to your point, part of that is there's the psychological toll that that takes in terms of here are all the things that I have to do in order to be acceptable, and here are the ways that I have to mentally prepare to do that. And then there's the actual labor of it. So every day, you know, I used to have longer hair. I get up, I comb my hair out, you know, blow dry it out because I want the perception that I'm more professional. Yeah. And there's a psychological toll of us having to switch these roles in our minds. What I think of is like these essentially, like, we're switching a frame for ourselves all the time. And there's also just the labor that it takes to do those things.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:35]:
This is interesting because it's got my mind thinking about a lot of things. As an educator, right? I've been in spaces where I've taught a predominantly white student body. I remember vividly having a conversation with some of my students. I said, This is not necessarily how I normally talk.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:05:54]:
Right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:55]:
I remember they were like, Oh, Mr. Akins, tell us more. How would you normally talk? And and I started saying some stuff that I would say, like, if I was in a barbershop, which is somewhere that was very comfortable for me. And they'd like, what? What did you what? What did you say? What? And it's not like I was using the accent. It was just maybe the words that I use and some of the phrase I mean, my own children, my my kid, I got 2, and they will clown me. Daddy, you're just so black. Why do you talk like that? This is how I normally talk.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:06:25]:
Right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:25]:
And and so but then there's been times where, like, if I was teaching in a predominantly black space, and I'm totally totally comfortable. And I'm sharing you know, I I can have these conversations as I would normally have these conversations. And they understand what I'm saying. I understand what they're saying, and it's it's it flows. So I I guess the next question I wanna ask to you is, how does that impact because I never really thought about it, but how could this impact someone's mental health when it comes to having to try to navigate these waters?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:06:58]:
Yeah. There's so much research that talks about the impact of of code switching on mental health. The Harvard Business Review, I think it it probably a few years ago reported that about 32% of employees that frequently code switch are more likely to burn out and have emotional exhaustion. So there's a significant I mean, if you think about 32%, that's a significant percentage. And there's the mental load or the mental energy that comes with having to manage different identities. There's also a piece where it really there's there's also a significant impact in terms of cognitive performance and cognitive process. When you're constantly trying to think about how do I have to show up in spaces differently or how are people perceiving me? And like you said, it's not just, you know, because of the demographic of our country, you know, and we typically people of marginalized identities are not the majority in most spaces. The most spaces that we have to navigate are we're we're we're more often than not the minority.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:07:57]:
And part of that is that we have to, like you said, show up in one way and one space. And then if we're back in our community, we have to show up in another way. And so the exhaustion of having to navigate those 2 spaces has a significant impact, not only on cognitive function, but in our emotional the way that we feel emotionally. And then it impacts our ability to be able to be functional and typically leads to burnout.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:19]:
Sheesh. Burnout. Okay. So when you're saying burnout so, like, here's the thing. I could lose I could say, you know what? I'm tired. I'm exhausted in my current let's say, I'm a teacher. I'm teaching 12th grade, and I can say I'm tired of this position. I get burned out, but I could go to another position and be basically thrown into the same type of situation.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:08:39]:
Right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:40]:
So is there I don't know, connection or let's say I'm an educator. I'm thinking about, okay, this is not the place for me. Do you recommend maybe that we find a place that's more comfortable for us or do we look for a place that's more embracing or welcoming to our identity? That I guess that's my question.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:09:00]:
Yeah. Just the way that systems function, it's very difficult to try to find a place that's actually gonna be comfortable and will embrace and understand the impact, the the emotional toll, that code switching, systemic racism, all of the inequities, microaggressions, how all of those things really impact the individual's mental health and well-being. That's difficult, but I think more desirable if teachers can find spaces where they can have open dialogue about these things. I mean, more, I think more and more we're seeing the rise of like employee resource groups, affinity groups that really provide spaces for people to feel like they have that support among their peers and that they're able to continuously give feedback to leadership about their experience. I think those, those types of things have an impact on how one per a person can feel in that space. So as teachers, whether you're navigating going to another school or whether you're starting your professional career and you're looking at, is this a place that I want to be? I think when you think about how your identity will be accepted and embraced and understood in in that school, it's a really important marker for whether or not it's a good fit.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:07]:
So I'm gonna throw something at you. And I don't know I don't know if you're prepared for this.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:10:11]:
Okay. I'm ready for it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:15]:
We can edit it out if it's not. But sometimes we talk about code switching from a racial standpoint. But then I know I've talked to some of my folks in the LGBTQ plus community that say, you know what? If I come off too flamboyant or if I come off a certain way, then so I might you may not know or recognize that I might be gay based off of the way I my mannerisms or or because I'm afraid that I may not be accepted if I'm truly myself.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:10:44]:
Right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:45]:
Is this something that you have seen in your experience as well?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:10:48]:
Oh, absolutely. With any marginalized identity, people the way that people feel safe is to put people in boxes and to only understand them in a certain way. For example, my identity, I I identify as Latina and people under can understand me in a very specific way. So once I deviate from outside of that box or whatever their construction is of me in their own mind, they have difficulty understanding who I am. For every marginalized identity, people feel safer if they can understand it in one way. And that's just how we've been socialized. So many different marginalized communities or identities that come into a majority culture space, they are going to be faced with that same experience where I know we're all programmed. Those of us that have these that carry these identities, I know that if I come off this way, this is how I'll be perceived.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:11:38]:
Or I know that it could potentially impact my ability to advance in my career or to be seen as a true professional. Again, who come into a space with with any type of marginalized identity.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:56]:
There you go. Yeah. So I guess across the board, if you are a part of someone that identifies as being in a, like you said, historically marginalized community, this is something that you might be experiencing, which leads me to a conversation I've had with some of my other colleagues who are mixed race.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:12:12]:
Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:13]:
And so they say, you know what, I have struggled growing up because I'm mixed race. So let's say I'm I'm I'm black. You know, one parent's black, one parent is white or something else like that. And so, like, when when I try to navigate within one group or the other, I have a hard time, it get teased because I'm acting too one way or the other. Yeah. What is your experience in those those kind of realms?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:12:37]:
We all have different identities that we all we hold. But I think especially when it comes to I think when we think about racial identities or ethnic identities, I think that is something that is because we have been so we we we live in a racist culture. I mean, just fundamentally in the United States, that's that's our foundation, sadly. And so everything that we do and everything that we experience is racialized, especially when it comes to racial identity and ethnic identity. It's very difficult for people to be able to there's so much divisiveness, I think, when it comes to even within our in groups. Within our in groups. My father is an immigrant to this country, so I'm 1st generation on his side. I'm 2nd generation on my mother's side, and she's Mexican American.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:13:25]:
So she grew up in this country. They have 2 very different experiences. And I feel as though there's there are ways that I identify with my Colombian culture. And and I'll say my Mexican American culture because that was very much my mother's experience. And there are times when I feel that same I have that same experience where I feel like, well, I'm not I am from here. I'm here. I'm from the United States, but I'm othered and I don't quite fit. If I go to Colombia, I'm not Colombian.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:13:55]:
And if I'm here in the United States, I'm an American, but I'm not really an American in terms of how I'm accepted. That experience of feeling as though, you know, our identities fracture us and we don't feel as though we belong in either group because it's a common experience. And I think becomes important is, again, continued conversations about what that means. In the Latinx culture, colorism is a big issue, which I think that idea that mixed race identity in our culture. And there's a lot of racism that's just fed through our colonial past. And so there's a lot to overcome just outside with majority culture and then sometimes within our groups, the groups that we share identities with.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:40]:
So can I pry a little bit?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:14:42]:
Please do.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:43]:
Yeah. You mentioned that I think you said your mom was Mexican American and your father is Colombian. I'm assuming that you speak Spanish.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:14:51]:
I do speak Spanish.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:53]:
Okay. So would you say, like, let's say you're speaking Spanish in front of Mexican folks or if you're speaking Spanish in front of Colombian folk, do you feel like you received differently or do you tweak your your your, I don't know, accent a certain way to try to match each group?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:15:09]:
Oh, that's such a great question. Because we talk about this a lot in my family. So because of the way that I grew up, my essentially my accent is indistinguishable to anyone that I come into contact with. And they, you know, they, they joke whenever I go to another country, people just, you know, they'll typically say I sound like a gringa. My Spanish is very Americanized in terms of my accent. One thing that I recognized early was that when I would spend time with my mom's family, there were lots of different terms than when I spent time with my dad's family. There were things that I didn't that didn't connect. And so I became aware of that.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:15:46]:
And I definitely do change the way that I talk depending on who I'm with. But in terms of my accent, I don't think I don't think there's any changing in that for me. Okay. I think it's it's just it's just some kind of conglomeration of whatever happened in both of my families.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:02]:
Fair enough. Okay. I was curious. I was just curious.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:16:05]:
But but I will say this. I think that similarly, people who grew up in this country, people who are 1st or second generation who speak Spanish or don't speak Spanish or, you know, like me, I have an indistinguishable accent. You know, no one knows where I came from. There can also be a lot of marginalization in terms of, like, either you're in or you're out, depending on where you grew up, who how you speak, if you speak Spanish well, if you don't speak Spanish well. Those are the things that are important for us to fight against because I think part of the divisiveness within our communities is the thing that doesn't allow us to be able to thrive. And, you know, whether we're in academic spaces or we're in different organizations or businesses or companies, the more that we feel that we're in and that our identities are accepted because we you know, part of the beauty of who we are is that we don't have all of the same characteristics in terms of how our identity show up. That's really important is how we start to accept that. You know? However our identity show up, that's who we are.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:02]:
Okay. I like you. Alright. Alright. Let's do this. I I I was trying to catch you off guard. I was just curious. I like that.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:17:09]:
No. It's true. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure if I if I I need to, like, record it and somebody like, can someone help me understand my own accent?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:18]:
Okay. Alright. Alright. Well, let's shift gears a little bit. Alright. So we've had a I enjoyed the conversation about code switching your personal experiences. Thank you for sharing. And so I've learned a lot.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:30]:
Let's switch over to how do we support our folks who are or or should we be mindful that this individual is not a authentic representation of who they are? Is there something that we can do? Let's say I'm a principal or somebody in leadership or just a colleague. This individual staff member to feel welcome, but they are I can clearly see that there may be mannerisms or language, things like that, maybe not authentic. What are some suggestions that you can give to folks that are just wanting to make them feel welcomed in those in those spaces?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:18:06]:
Yeah. That's such a great question. What's really important is to and I always say this when I when I talk to leadership about what how can we support BIPOC staff or specifically speak about BIPOC staff. But I think any marginalized community that's, you know, coming into your organization or into a school is it's really important to have an open conversation about race, to just be able to talk about it. Once you open the door, that actually creates more safety. Whereas we typically try not to talk about race or identity because we feel like I'm gonna say the wrong thing or I'm gonna, you know, it's gonna be uncomfortable or this is not really gonna be helpful. But the more we open the door to have that conversation, the more that we're gonna create more safety. And, and we're actually gonna reduce the impact of that mental load of having to do that type of code switching or feel as though you have to take on those microaggressions.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:18:58]:
But the more that you open the door and you just make race and identity a part of the conversation, the better. And I think it's important to talk about like, just identifying that sometimes these things are going to have a toll,

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:10]:
you

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:19:10]:
know, to be able to say like, hey, we're we understand how systemic racism, especially in education. I mean, I'm sure obviously this is part of the reason why you do this podcast within education. It was fundamentally built with systemic racism in mind. It's fundamentally flawed, and we know that, and that's just gonna be part of what we're gonna have to battle on a daily basis. And so the more that we can be open and talk about it, the more we're gonna create more psychological safety and the more that we're gonna be able to create an environment where people are gonna thrive.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:40]:
That sounds great on paper.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:19:42]:
I know. That's what everyone says when they interview me. They're like, in this utopia that you've created in your own mind.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:49]:
Just ask them about it. It's no big deal. Okay. Well, let's I mean, I I mean, I I do, you know, I I work with folks as well, especially white educators, and they're like, I'm just uncomfortable

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:19:59]:
You're right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:00]:
With bringing up these kind of conversations. I don't want to initiate these type of conversations. Now if someone like, if I am talking to a person of color or a person of the LGBTQ plus community and they bring it up, then sure, I will engage. However, the idea of bringing it up, having these conversations, and, you know, being all for it scares me. Maybe maybe they made a mistake in the past or whatever. They said something, again, with the best intentions. It just didn't go well. What type of talking points maybe that you can give as far as, like, introductory, how to bring it up type of conversation to kind of address? I recognize you probably are kinda changing up some of the things you would normally do at home.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:41]:
What are some things that I can do to make you feel comfortable in these spaces?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:20:45]:
The most important part is to just recognize that we're gonna mess it up in some way. Part of what becomes important is to just name that immediately, especially for a leader to say, here are the things that we are doing. I mean, if you are doing anything right, here are the things that we are doing. Here are the things that we're trying to do, and we wanna continue to have an open dialogue. So I want you to feel free to come to me if something comes up. Opening the door in that way to say, hey. If anything ever comes up, I really want you to be able to tell me. And I know it's probably not gonna be easy, and I know it's probably gonna be messy, but I'd like to try.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:21:19]:
That's probably the most important thing is to be honest and to really be open to the possibility that you really want you know, if people want to do true allyship, it's about really trying to show up authentically and knowing that you are gonna mess it up and that not putting the burden of the labor on the other individual to say like, hey. I, you know, if I I know if I came into space and someone would say, hey. I know you're the only Latina working here, and I imagine that would be hard, but I want you to know that I'm open to having dialogue about that. And if anything comes up, I want you to just come to me and know that we can have a conversation. I know I would feel so much better about knowing that there's an opportunity to have that conversation as opposed to most of the time. I am always, and I'm sure you have this experience where, or have had this experience or feels like I'm trying to like maneuver and navigate and figure out like how do I how do I figure this space out and how do I figure out who's safe and who's who's an ally and who can I depend on? If someone were to come to me and say the door is always open for us to talk about it even if it's messy, I think that that alone is an important first step.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:23]:
I love how you mentioned, and I wrote it down. You said, I'd like to try. That hit home. That hit, like, hard for me because I can think about former supervisors, bosses. Just hearing that, like, look, I get it. I don't have all the answers. I can't identify. I can't relate to your situation, but I'd like to try

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:22:46]:
Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:46]:
To that would go so far.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:22:49]:
A 100%.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:50]:
That simple phrase.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:22:51]:
Yeah. It diffuses so much of the pressure that we feel of what you know, not knowing or feeling, you know, uncertain or feeling like, am I gonna get support that I need? Opening that door is really important.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:01]:
How how important is that though to even engage in those conversations? Because again, I know a lot of folks will just avoid anything that might insinuate that they might be quote unquote racist. And so they they will avoid these kind of conversations at all costs. How important is it to a person who is part of a historically marginalized population? How important is it for them to hear something?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:23:25]:
It's hugely important. Some people will say, well, everyone's different. Some people, it's really important to them. Some people don't wanna talk about it. So how do I know where where they are? Right. But the research does bear out that companies and organizations and institutions who talk about it openly, they actually the the BIPOC employees in that organization feel safer. So because they know that there's an openness and willingness to talk about it and it doesn't feel as like it's taboo. Everything that we feel I if you just think about anything in life, anything that we feel is taboo and I can't talk about it, it's always under the surface.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:24:02]:
Like, you know, like I was saying, everything in in this country is racialized. We can't pretend like it doesn't exist. And so the more that we address it, understand it, it's you know, just name what's in the room, the more that people are gonna feel safe.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:15]:
I'm with that. Okay. Alright. That makes a lot of sense, and I I really appreciate your time on this. I feel like we could talk about this conversation

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:24:22]:
It could.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:23]:
So many different ways because I have my own personal stories. As I mentioned to you before we even started recording, I was like, look. I lived in Idaho for, like, 8 years.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:24:34]:
Yeah. It's real.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:39]:
And before that, I was in Oregon. So it's not like I've had a lot of experience in predominantly white spaces. And one of the biggest things for me is, you know, I have 2 kids that are black. And I think about again, I live in Idaho. I live in Oregon, which meant my kids did as well. So they grew up a certain way. Sometimes I worry about like, my daughter's in 9th grade now and I've been talking to her about, yo, you should go to an HBCU at least for your your undergrad so you can get some experience. One encouraged her to get some experience.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:11]:
But then on the other end is, like, is that the best thing as a parent to set her up when she's predominantly grown up in white spaces and not the best ideal situation for her? So I don't know. I've been toying with that for the last, I don't know, 6, 7 months these days.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:25:29]:
Yeah. I mean, I think that identity and how we understand and work through through our identity is really important. That's gonna be hard and tricky. And there are lots of ways that it's been hard and tricky for me and my I'm sure for you, I know for myself, so much of the way that I understand my own identity has evolved in terms of how I understand myself, who I'm in contact with, who my community is. Buried experiences are really important. You know, it might be tricky, but it's always worth it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:55]:
Always worth it. I love that answer. I I have definitely learned a lot from you in this conversation. This has been fun engaging in this conversation. Again, glad to hear someone that can also have their own personal experiences as well when it comes to code switching. I'd love for you to take us home with any final words of advice to our

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:26:11]:
listeners. Yeah. I think that, you know, especially within education, I think having these conversations are so critical with high level of burnout just with the work that has to be done every day. Understanding that, you know, especially for those who have marginalized identities, know that what you're experiencing internally and all the things that you have to do in the the emotional labor and the code switching and the microaggressions that you deal with are real and find the support that you need in order to to get through so that you can do the work that you love.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:40]:
There it is. If we have some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:26:45]:
Through my website, marisolerlocker.com. That's the easiest and fastest way to get in touch with me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:51]:
Alright. Well, we'll leave links in the shovel mills for everyone to get in touch with you. Marisol, it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Marisol Solarte Erlacher [00:26:58]:
Yeah. No. Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed it.

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