Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome advocates to another episode of the Lead in Equity podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is Simone Morales. So without further ado, Simone, thank you so much for joining us today.

Simone Morales [00:00:16]:
Thank you for having me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:17]:
Pleasure is mine. We were talking before we started hitting record, and some of the things that I'm excited to talk about is what can happen for our students after high school and what kind of support is available for them as well? And those are some really good important conversations I know a lot of our listeners are excited to hear. But before we get into today's topic, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Simone Morales [00:00:39]:
Yeah. So Simone Morales. I use she, her pronouns. I am the executive director for OneGoal here located specifically in California. A little bit about myself, and then I'll share about OneGoal. I have been supporting students like myself. I was first in my family to go to college. I grew up low income.

Simone Morales [00:00:55]:
I know what our young students are navigating, trying to figure out what's next. And I've spent over a decade really supporting first generation, low income students with post secondary advising and so, and roughly ten years at the higher ed level,

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:07]:
helping with retention, persistence, and graduation. Me and OneGoal makes complete sense.

Simone Morales [00:01:07]:
OneGoal is an organization that has OneGoal is an organization that is working with our schools and our districts to transform the way that our students are receiving post secondary advising during the school day. Figuring out what's next after life should not be an extracurricular activity. It should be baked in. Like, it should be part of the core curriculum, how we think about science and math and arts. Thinking about what's after high school and then making a plan to do that should also be included in the school day.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:35]:
I agree. It should be included in the school day, and one might argue, oh, well, we got school counselors, AVID. We have all these different programs that are available in our schools. That should be enough. But on your end, you might have a different take. So I guess the first question I wanna ask is why do we need more college and career advisement in our schools?

Simone Morales [00:01:58]:
Yeah. That's a good question. And we do have all of those great programs and many more that you didn't name, and it's still not enough. The average high school student receives thirty eight minutes of college and career advising in four years. 30 eight minutes.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:13]:
Just For a whole year? For all four years. Thirty eight minutes.

Simone Morales [00:02:16]:
Especially in our large schools where there's 500 students to one counselor. 30 eight minutes worth of conversation with an adult in your building about what is next and how to achieve whatever aspiration you have is simply not enough. I know we were talking a little bit before this, and we were talking about our counselors. And our counselors are amazing. They're amazing humans. They are more than qualified to do the work, and they are stretched thin. They are at capacity. And so it's just not enough.

Simone Morales [00:02:42]:
The bite size moments of advising is not enough. And our young people deserve to start early. They deserve to have conversations with all adults in the building, not just the counselor. Every adult in the building should feel equipped and qualified to be able to advise our students about what's next and provide quality advising. Oftentimes, if an educator, let's say, isn't first gen or is first gen, I guess that wouldn't matter in this in this particular scenario. But most of the time, our advice is centered on our own experience. This is where I went to school. This is what I know.

Simone Morales [00:03:11]:
This is what I know about the state in which I went to school and the type of school. What if they don't wanna go to that school? What if a young person doesn't wanna go to a four year institution? How would you then advise them about what is next and how to achieve that, whatever aspiration they may have, and to make sure it produces, like, high wage paying jobs? Like, that that is key. And I think a lot of our young folks aren't receiving that, and a lot of our adults in the building aren't equipped to be able to advise students in that way.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:39]:
So I I love this because I mean you brought up some good points that got me thinking because I know like sometimes yes. So I would argue I would argue that yes, a lot of these conversations do happen but only to a select few, not to all of our students. So like you mentioned, like some of us, if you're an educator, you have at least a bachelor's degree or something like that. And so, yeah, you have certain students in the you know what? You should go to this college, or you should do this. You should have you ever considered so those conversations do happen, but I don't I I would argue they don't always happen with every single student that's out there.

Simone Morales [00:04:14]:
I agree. I agree. It's not happening with every student out there. Typically, we hear the term like the select few. Select few, the the folks at the top five to 10% are receiving all of the advice. Those are the students who are gonna get in matriculate into those four year institutions. And there's the mighty middle. That is the, the one goal student is what we call the mighty middle.

Simone Morales [00:04:32]:
These are the students who are probably 2.2 to 3.2 GPA and really need a lot more hand holding and support. These are disproportionately gonna be lower income students, probably free and reduced lunch students first in their family to go to college, and also students of color. It's those students who have all of the family and familial support where the biological or chosen family, supporting them, champion them, like, yes, you can go and do the thing you wanna do, but don't necessarily know how to support them through that process. There's a term we use in higher ed called the hidden curriculum around, like, navigating the landscape. Like, it's a hidden curriculum. Like, if you're first in your family to do this thing, how are you supposed to know what to ask when you go to office hours? Why do you go to office hours? What is the benefit? What is the connection between going to grad school and making an a connection with your professor to then be able to write that letter of recommendation? That's hidden curriculum. The average first gen student is gonna go to class, gonna try to do well, maybe join a study group, but not necessarily making the connection behind, like, why this connection is and the same can be translated back to our high school student. Like, family supporting, but then what is the steps to actually get to college? What is the steps to actually find a certified pathway that's not at a two year and four year institution? That is, like, the the information and the guidance that our young people deserve to have.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:05:45]:
Okay. Now I know a lot of schools are college prep schools. I've been a part of college prep programs in in my past. And so I was always on some every single student should go to college after high school. That should be a mandatory thing. That was that was where I was at fast forward. I do believe that as adults, maybe we should not push our students to go to college as the everybody should, but maybe there's some priorities. Maybe someone would prefer to go to military or go into straight into the industry or there's other options.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:22]:
So the question that I have for you is how do we determine what or support a student as far as which lane they should they should go into and how early should we start doing those conversations?

Simone Morales [00:06:36]:
Yeah. That's a loaded question. I think

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:39]:
the two part question

Simone Morales [00:06:41]:
because I know it is as early as possible. But I think exposure. A lot of students have aspirations. They know what they want to do, but they're not quite sure, like, okay. I want to be, let's say, a registered nurse, but then what certifications do I need to do that? Are there other avenues behind just being a registered nurse? What is the the job opportunities that exist surrounding that? A lot of our students don't know what exists outside of what they see. And And this is what we see on TV. We see doctors, we see lawyers, we see teachers, we see counselors, and they see the adults that they engage with in their in their lifetime. What about those people behind the scene? We talk about student athletes.

Simone Morales [00:07:18]:
A lot of young folks, especially if they're athletic, want to go on to play in a league, but have they ever seen the people behind the scenes that are doing the data analytics, that are doing the engineering behind the buildings? It's the exposure. Our young people don't know because they aren't necessarily exposed and or a lot of adults in the building don't know what those careers are to, to advise them. The second part is I keep saying exposure, but if students could learn about different career options in middle school, by the time they get to high school, they can then start to narrow down, like, okay. These are my areas of interest. Students who work with one goal are starting to do this junior year. And while I think that I'm 100% it makes sense in junior year, I think that if families and schools are able to start supporting their students and exposure earlier and getting them to push and ask those questions to adults in the building prior to getting to sophomore year, they'll be better equipped to make an informed decision. I think old me would have a very skewed idea that everyone needs to go to college. College does not equate to high paying job all the time.

Simone Morales [00:08:18]:
That's that's like the elephant in the room. Like, okay, you got a college degree. Now what? Like, when you were there, what connections did you make? What did you learn outside of the classroom? What careers are you interested in? Because degree does not equate to career. And so when we get our young people to think about careers, then we start to get them to work backwards. What steps do I need to take to achieve said career? And you can enter anything there, right? Like, you know, you take a student to I'll stay on the athletic thing. You take a student to a gymnasium and they think they're just there to watch a game. But, like, there's careers I don't know about that is, like, behind the scenes, there's probably 50 people making this thing come together. Where could they see themselves a part of this entire collective?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:57]:
I love this conversation. Okay. Alright you bring you're bringing the heat and I appreciate you for that because you're right and that's what that was one of the the reasons why I was like, well, maybe not everybody should go to college because like you said college degree does not necessarily mean more money Now I remember seeing statistics that said otherwise, but then as we see technology changing, a lot of things that are happening these days with with folks coming out with with loans, student loans, and all kind of thing, it just is it gainful employment as it used to be, I don't know, years ago? Here's the question I wanna throw at you because you mentioned, like, if you go to a sporting event, you often we look at the players or maybe even the coaches, but there's all these other jobs that are supportive for these functions for the organization, for the sport, or whatever it is, which got me thinking about, okay, we're in a age right now with technology is is changing so much in artificial intelligence. So what are some things that we can do to start having conversations with students about jobs that haven't, like, that don't even exist yet, such as AI oriented type of jobs?

Simone Morales [00:10:01]:
We are changing. Careers and jobs that existed that exist now did not exist in 2020. One of the one of the big ones is social media influencer. That was not a thing before the pandemic, and yet students are now seeing that as an opportunity to achieve high earning income.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:16]:
That's a career?

Simone Morales [00:10:17]:
It's a career. Alright.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:18]:
So so is that part like, I'm sorry to cut you off, but you got Yeah. Three because, I mean, technically, I consider myself a social media influencer. So tell me a little bit more about how that like you said, 02/2020 was one way, but now in 02/2024 or sorry. 02/2025 rather. How is that more looked at as an option for a lot of our our students?

Simone Morales [00:10:38]:
Yeah. You could post a video on TikTok. Get I'm gonna make this up because I'm not even on TikTok, but you can get, like, millions of views. And that can equate to, like, dollars 10,000 from one video, a sixty second clip. That was I mean, social media really took off in 2020. TikTok started to become a thing in the height of the pandemic. And so for a lot of our students, they see themselves as influencers. They see themselves as social media managers.

Simone Morales [00:11:02]:
It goes back to the basketball analogy. There are people behind the person that's the star to make it a reality, and then it just creates new jobs. AI can't be a social media man. AI can't do a lot of the things that humans are required to do regardless. I I support some of the movements we are making with AI coming in and changing the game, and we see a lot of errors that still require the human brain, the human knowledge, and actual human to make it work. I don't know if that answers your question, but a lot of young people now see social media as a different entrepreneurial like avenue than what they haven't seen in the past because Instagram is Instagram came out of what 2012 and it was only for iphone users and so that's like ten years worth of like new jobs formally creative

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:49]:
so I can appreciate because a lot of times we tend to push students or encourage students in more traditional or well recognized type of fields. Yeah. And what I'm hearing on your end is now it's time maybe we can think outside the box and present careers that either have a lot of potential down the road. So by the time you hit senior year or freshman year in college or whatever your your goals are after high school, those are some things that we can consider. I I just I know we weren't at least I wasn't having conversations with students about, you know what? You can start getting you could be a YouTuber that as a career as opposed to maybe being a side hustle or, you know, just, you know, have fun, hobby type of thing. I mean, I started a podcast as a a hobby. Like, it wasn't it was never a goal for me to branch into books and all this other content that's available. So I'm I'm glad that you're bringing these kind of conversations up early.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:45]:
Are there any other careers that you have that you can maybe bring up that maybe not are as traditional or conventional that we like, people my age or so would say?

Simone Morales [00:12:56]:
You know, it's funny. As you were talking, I was reflecting back when I was working in higher ed. And I mean, all these students are enrolled in college. And I distinctly remembered two students who had these side hustles that were helping them, like, cover their basic needs. One is a student, I'll keep her name anonymous, but she was like the campus beautician. She first gen kid, out of state student, going to this Ivy League institution, still didn't have enough funding to be able to cover just basic necessities. This is, like, toiletries and to be able to, like, live as a human, not just go to class and and come back to their dorm room, but, like, go to the movies and pay outside bills. And she was, like, the dorm beautician.

Simone Morales [00:13:34]:
She was doing everybody's hair, black student doing all the black girls' hair on campuses. And that was how she paid for summer school. Then I think about another student who also first gen who enjoyed photography as a hobby. And because he was willing to expose himself, like, on social media posting his photos, someone at the university higher up level saw it, contracted this student out to film commencement. I got in contact with the student and then they became the official photographer for all of our big events. And so our young people are dreaming radically. Those two students in particular went on to get degrees that are related to, like, business. Like how do I then get the skills necessary to own my own business to do this thing that I'm passionate about? The passion never stopped, right? The thing that they enjoy never stopped.

Simone Morales [00:14:18]:
The non traditional career of doing hair or taking pictures is lucrative. And they see the value in it and they see, like, multiple steps they can take to achieve, like, the outside goal. And there's other careers. Some of our students in The Bay who are on track to be electricians or to do things with buses here, those are 6 figure paying jobs. But most students aren't necessarily making the connection behind, like, this type of work and this type of job as valuable, and yet it comes with, like, a benefit, like, benefits and retirement and a jump start into your career within two years.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:50]:
Alright. Well, this is good. Let me ask you this. If you were a school administrator or let's just say a a school teacher let's let's start with the teacher level. What are some things that teachers can do to increase more college and career awareness? Now because I know, like, a lot of teachers will say, well, I'm an English teacher. I just I I got standards. I got this. I got that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:15:11]:
I'm a math teacher. I gotta teach two plus two. So what are some tips or or strategies that you can provide to educators at the school level and classroom level for adding in more college and career advisement for students?

Simone Morales [00:15:25]:
This goes back to my point earlier. Advising is happening in our schools. Mhmm. Quality advisement isn't always happening in our so we'll take the English teacher, which we have a few English teachers who are teaching one goal classes right now. Our students are more likely to go to someone they trust to ask for advice than someone they don't have a connection with. And our students have the most connection with the teachers, the educators in the building. That's where they find their connections. And so I my advice would be, if you don't feel equipped, talk to your principal, your school leader about what services that you can work with to equip you to have those conversations.

Simone Morales [00:15:59]:
Many moons ago, I worked in high school, and I think about the lack of knowledge I had around, like, certain career fields. And I I speak about it now because I think that my goal was to get everyone to college. And I realized I was getting young people to college, and then they were stopping out. And these were black and brown kids. And I'm just like, well, what's happening at the higher ed level? So I went to higher ed and I learned. And then I realized that there was something happening with our pipeline about our students not making the best informed decisions and invite and enrolling into a quality institution. And you and I talked about this a little earlier, Sheldon, but quality as in, like, how far away is it from home? Does it matter if there's someone else on that campus that looks like you or that you know from your hometown? If our students don't find community and sense of belonging within those first, I would say, twelve weeks, they're less likely to persist to graduate. And so when I think about educators in the building, it's everyone's responsibility, not just the four counselors in the building or the one counselor in the building to make our young people's dreams feel like a reality.

Simone Morales [00:16:59]:
I will also say someone else's pathway does not need to be your pathway. So when your young person comes to you and they're like, I wanna be, I don't know, make this up, a politician. You're like, you'd be skipping class. I can't see you as a politician. Actually, let's talk about, like, how this equates to politics and the systemic barriers that's, like, leading to you skipping class. And then how would you work in the future to break that down? What are some possible career avenues? Just shaping the conversation, helping them see the potential within themselves. We hear all the time how everyone's favorite rappers are always like, my teacher didn't believe in me.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Morales [00:17:32]:
Right? So how do we then shape our mindset to believe in their aspirations and then support them and figure out how to do that?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:38]:
I was just watching the end of I think it was the NAACP Image Awards, and I saw the Wayne's family just got inducted into the, I don't know, hall of fame for the Image Awards. And and I was listening to I think it was it was Marlon and Damon were on stage, and they were telling the story about their brother Keenan and how there was a point in Keenan's life where he's told his mom, look. I am moving to California, and I'm gonna be a comedian, like, all or nothing. And how mom was like, oh no, don't do that. And he was like, I'm doing this. And I know there's a lot of times where as adults, we feel like we know what's best for a young a young individual because we've had our life experiences. We've done this, we've done that, and we've learned our own lessons. But what I'm hearing from your end is we should provide support for our folks who are aspirational in these goals.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:33]:
So maybe we can't see it, but if that student, that child believes in whatever goals that they are trying to achieve, that's how we can support. Or is is that what I heard?

Simone Morales [00:18:43]:
Yeah. I didn't watch the awards, but I did see they got inducted into the, the hall of fame.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:48]:
Uh-huh. But I

Simone Morales [00:18:49]:
think that if a student, let's say, Lil Marlon is in my class, and I'm a teacher, and they say they wanna be a comedian. They gonna move to LA. I lived in LA. It's very expensive, and everybody is working towards that same goal, comedian, actor, actresses. Right?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:02]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Morales [00:19:03]:
I would then push Marlon to think about, okay. Let's develop, like, a five year timeline. Tell me, like, helping them think through the process. Like, not just the big picture, but what are the small nuggets you need to get there? Is there any skills or certifications or classes that you need to take? So now I'm directing you back to education in a way to prepare you for the thing, but I'm doing it in a way that meets your needs versus my own preconceived notions of, like, you just need to go to college and get this four year degree because the global economy is still having a high emphasis on getting a four year degree. Yes. And what are other areas of education that you can get to then achieve said dream?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:38]:
So if there's a okay. Okay. Let's just say

Simone Morales [00:19:42]:
I put that on

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:43]:
those. Alright. Let's just say you got a young basketball individual, someone who's aspiring to make it to the NBA. And I don't know. There's a man and a boy, and he's, like, five foot seven. And he's like, you know what? I'm I'm and they're and they never made varsity. They made they're they may have made JV and they're coming off the bench, and they're saying they wanna make the make it to the NBA. Is there I guess, is there a line? Is there a line as as guidance that we can give to students? It's like, you know what? This is probably not the career that you want to aspire to or maybe you should consider other options.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:20:18]:
Is there, like, maybe conversations or strategies that you can give to individuals to where, yes, we don't wanna crush dreams and goals. However, we want to provide a little bit more emphasis on reality.

Simone Morales [00:20:31]:
It's literally that. Like, we don't wanna cuddle students. Uh-huh. And one of the things that we equipped our students to be able to do is have tough conversations with their parents about their own dreams. So then how do we model that for them about having tough conversations around, like, this is a thing that you want to do, and is there other avenues to get there? Does this feel reachable? What are can we develop a plan b and a plan c in case this does not work out? So that way when you do graduate, you aren't feeling stuck, but you are at least working towards another goal you may have. So it's about framing the conversation. Like, our our young people already have so many barriers set up against them, systemic barriers, especially first gen low income students, students of color. How do we then continue to inspire them and motivate them in a way that's meaningful and not detrimental to them to stop dreaming? Like, that's

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:21]:
Meaningful and not detrimental is a is a a big piece right there. So you're providing like, kids come to you. They support you know, they they believe that I guess they have the trust. They have a level of trust and that's why they're coming to us for guidance and advice. And and I love how you kinda frame it. So like option b, maybe an option c, those are some ways that we can kinda can do some things that that'll help. Again, there's gotta be a line between reality and then also a dream because there are those outliers, like a Keenan Ivory Wayans, but there are also gonna be some reality of individuals like, you know what? It's just not it just didn't work out. Do you do you give up at some point and try to consider, like you said, the pivot or plan b, or do you keep going until it it finally works out? So those are some good strategy.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:09]:
Are there any other strategies that you wanna provide to our our listeners out there in regards to supporting students when it comes to college and career advisement?

Simone Morales [00:22:17]:
Starting early. There are so many great community based organizations doing work to support our young people. That might be like college and career expos in your area. That might be bringing speakers into your classroom, dedicating ten minutes once a month for students to be exposed to opportunities that might be nontraditional. So taking them beyond the doctor, the lawyer, the nurse. Yeah. That those would be my my biggest nuggets of advice. If there's any principals listening, think about the capacity of your counselors.

Simone Morales [00:22:45]:
Our counselors are stretched thin. I I think we're watching challenges with FAFSA happen right now. How can we preemptively think about setting up our our adults in the building to support our students with, like, what's gonna transpire with education over the next couple years with inflation, with you mentioned this earlier, like, AI taking over jobs. Like, how do we prep our students for things that we know are on the horizon they can't yet see?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:09]:
I love it. I love it. Alright. I have thoroughly learned a lot. I'll I'll say that, Simone, and I agree. We should be having more conversation in regards to college and career advisement, especially for those students who don't necessarily have that guidance or mentorship already or availability, like you said, those who might be first in their family to pursue a certain type of career or even a four year degree. Those are kind of things that are very important. And like I said before, I know a lot of conversations do happen, but it doesn't happen for all students.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:42]:
It might just happen to I forgot what you what did you say? Is that select what do you call it? The select few?

Simone Morales [00:23:47]:
It's the select few. Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:48]:
The select few.

Simone Morales [00:23:49]:
The select few. And we forget about the mighty middle. Who needs a lot more hand holding than the select few at the top?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:55]:
So okay. So the mighty middle, is there, even a lower bar? Like, I don't wanna say lower bars. I don't wanna do that. It's all students that need support.

Simone Morales [00:24:05]:
Students who are working with one goal, who fall in that mighty middle, you know, supporting a student with a, a GPA that might be, like, a 2.2 and working with them in junior year, there's opportunity for us to work with the the counselor and the teacher to do credit recovery, to get that GPA up, to then make them eligible for a plethora of opportunities they wouldn't quite have had. And any student that's below that, they still deserve the same amount of advising and support. And so and, again, those are the students we wanna make sure that we are not crushing drains, but supporting aspirations in a way that is beneficial to their mental health, their ability to see themselves beyond what society is telling them or statistics are telling them or class attendance is telling them. High school is such a small point of your life, and we think about our own collegiate journey or high school journey. It wasn't linear. You and I both could probably talk for hours about our own journeys and career and what you thought you were gonna do versus what you did ten years later and then what you changed your career to mid time, like, they need to hear those stories.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:01]:
Love it. Love it. Alright. I wanna give you an opportunity to share one final word of advice because, again, I think that this conversation has been very helpful, and I hope folks that are listening to this conversation have already started thinking about, okay, what are some things what are some more things? Like, I'm already doing stuff. What are some additional things that I can do in my classroom, in my school, whatever my setting is to support students with college and career advisement? But I'd love for you to provide one final word of advice to our listeners out there.

Simone Morales [00:25:27]:
Yeah. I would say have candid conversations. I've said this throughout the the whole entire podcast, but the candid conversations at home with your young people for young people with your friends. Talk to your friends about what they where they see themselves. We learn a lot from each other. Figuring out what's next after high school is so community based. Who are the people that you know, and how did they get there and learn and seek support there? I think helping and helping young people is important, but it's also knowing when to ask. And so don't be afraid to ask for the support you need.

Simone Morales [00:25:58]:
You deserve it, and it's required.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:00]:
You deserve it, and it's required. Drop the mic on that one. Love that. Okay. If we got some folks that wanna connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Simone Morales [00:26:08]:
Best way to reach me online? I would say probably email. I'm not really online a lot. But if you go to 1goal.org, you can click on California, and you'll see me there as the executive director. And there's a whole box that say connect with me until you

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:21]:
Okay. Well, we gotta get you on social media, so that that'll be the next. We're

Simone Morales [00:26:27]:
getting there. We're getting there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:29]:
Okay. Okay. Alright. Alright. Cool. Well, it has Simone, it has truly been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Simone Morales [00:26:34]:
Thank you.

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